14 replies to this topic

[hikerroeland]

Those anyone know if Arolithos Traditional Village (Close to Heraklion ) is just a hotel or if it is a village??? Is it nice to take photos and is it interesting to go a few km out of the way to visit it??

Roeland

sorry I posted twice and cannot delete it

[chorianos]

“Arolithos” is a newly build village (in 1985) in a “certain Cretan Village style”, but before, on that spot there has never been a village of that kind. As a matter of fact it is a hotel with wedding/baptizing facilities. There is a restaurant, some shops, a kafenion, like in any luxury holiday resort.
If you are looking for “authentic and traditional Cretan” villages, you don’t have to go there.
Personally I find these efforts very artificial and make me think of Disneyland (a better reference for you Roeland > Bokrijk). It gives you an idea how it was in former days, but the authenticity is far gone. Same feeling I have in Knossos, where 85% of what you see is a complete fake, but tourists want to see something, so what is there to complaint?
If you want to visit real Cretan villages, let me know, I can guide you to “the real thing”.

[hikerroeland]

Charming Thank you very much for the information.This the first time that we are coming to Crete (we did visit many other grece islands. I don't think I will go there because it fake. I am staying on the north side of crete this time. In Analipsis near Chersonissos that is why I have made 5 trip from no more than a 150km. I thik I will visit Lato and Malia instead of Knossos .What do you think? Maybe Next time I will visit you.

Roeland

[yannis_s]

Dear Roeland,
I like the work they have done in Arolithos. The houses and workshops are well-made and they give a realistic image of how houses in Crete used to be. Besides it is also nice to sit at the small cafe in Arolithos and enjoy a coffee or an ouzo with meze.

Perhaps there are a few mistakes in the way Arthur Evans reconstructed the buildings in Knossos, but it is far from fake. Knossos is the most significant archaeological site in Crete and there is a lot to learn about the Minoan civilisation during your visit there.

PS. I have removed the bold formatting from your messages. Use bold if you want to emphasize a word or twο, not the entire message.

[hikerroeland]

yannis_s Thank you vzery much for the information. It is very usefull

Greetings
Roeland

[Julie]

"85% fake" is unfair as well as wildly inaccurate. The palace itself was over-restored by Sir Arthur Evans, but even if one dislikes the restoration the rest of the site was not much altered after excavation and is, as Yannis says, the most significant archaeological site in Crete. It is certainly one of the most interesting. Knossos was not only a palace, it was a whole city, and wandering around its remains, which are spread over a large area, can give you a real feeling of what it might have been like to live and work there. In the early morning and evening, before the tour buses have arrived and after they've left, it is a very atmospheric place.

If you do go to Knossos, Roeland, you should also visit the Archaeological Museum in Heraklion. The selection of major works on display while main museum is being renovated is wonderful, and you will get more out of your visit to Knossos if you go there first.

[hikerroeland]

Thank you very much Jullie. What do you think about Malia and Lato ? what this time I what to keep myself east from Heraklion
Roeland

[Julie]

Malia is another Minoan site very much worth seeing. It's much smaller than Knossos: what I remember best about it from our only visit 25 years ago is the giant pithoi.

Lato is a 7th century Doric site and is completely different - see http://www.crete.tou...o-si-100-en.jsp for a brief description and some photos. It's certainly worth seeing, but no substitute for Knossos. If I had to choose two of the three, it would be (1) Knossos (2) Malia.

But you haven't even mentioned Phaistos, which is - I think - the most interesting and atmospheric of all Crete's ancient sites.

[hikerroeland]

Julie,
Phaistos will be for next year either in June or in October( first have to go to South Africa for 3 weeks in March)then we intend to stay on the south side of Crete
Thanks for the information
Roeland

[chorianos]

"85% fake" is unfair as well as wildly inaccurate. The palace itself was over-restored by Sir Arthur Evans, but even if one dislikes the restoration the rest of the site was not much altered after excavation and is, as Yannis says, the most significant archaeological site in Crete. It is certainly one of the most interesting. Knossos was not only a palace, it was a whole city, and wandering around its remains, which are spread over a large area, can give you a real feeling of what it might have been like to live and work there. In the early morning and evening, before the tour buses have arrived and after they've left, it is a very atmospheric place.”

Sorry Julie, but I have to disagree on this. I was a guide here on Crete for 2 years, with a weekly visit to Knossos and the archeological museum in Heraklion. Because I am not Greek, we had to take an “official” guide with us on any archeological site and in the museums, mostly English speaking. The tourists I accompanied were Belgians, Dutch and French speaking, so I did the translation. The majority of the so called “official guides” told the story which you can also read in most of the tourist guide books. Knossos is the palace of king Minos, with the labyrinth, the whole mythological story.
Two years ago I accidentally run into some archeologists on the site of Festos and we started to speak about the Minoan civilization and they told me a whole different story. This was the beginning of my search on this matter. I began to read books, looked things up on the internet and had long talks with these archeologists.
So what Knossos concerns, it was not a village, like also you suggested, it was not a palace like most of the tourist guides say, there was no “King” Minos, the labyrinth is not there,….. Everything above ground level is build by Evans using his own ideas how it could have been like. Evans had no archeological degree. He falsified frescos trying to prove that he found “the palace of King Minos”, many of the most valuable findings were shipped over to England and are mostly in private hands.
Even now, a lot is unknown about that period, because the written findings in “linear A” are not yet deciphered. What they do know is that Knossos, and any Minoan site, was a place where the “highest in command” lived. Besides its governmental and administrational function it was used for ceremonial, religious, cultural and sport manifestations.
In the archeological world there are international rules and standard procedures to follow for what excavations concern. They have not at all been followed or applied at Knossos. Archeologists speak about “The Disney world of archeology” when they refer to Knossos. Enough reasons, I think, to say that for people who are really interested in the Minoan civilization, better stay away from Knossos.

Very interesting literature about this matter =
“Minos and the moderns” from Theodore Ziolowski
“The Knossos Labyrinth”, a new view of the Palace of Minos at Knossos from Rodney Castleden
“Essays in Honnor of Sara A. Immerwahr by the American School of Classical Studies at Athens

I don’t want to start a campaign against Knossos of course. I know that 95 % of the visitors are not enough interested in history, so they can spend a nice time in Knossos. The few others, I can strongly recommend Festos.

[David and Glenda]

Next you'll be saying Father Christmas doesn't exist!

[Julie]

No need to apologise for disagreeing, Charming. I'm of course aware that archaeologists and historians hold widely differing theories and views about Knossos, and that there are huge doubts over the wisdom of Evans's restorations, and that on the strength of these doubts he has been entirely discredited and scorned by some; while others have taken a less negative and punitive view.

The truth is that there is a great deal that we don't know about Minoan civilisation, and that much of what we think we know is myth. The "palace" may indeed have been something other than a palace (but the term, which is the one commonly used, is surely acceptable in a short post on an internet forum). I certainly agree about the frescoes, which I've always thought are pure fantasy. (And I certainly agree about Phaistos, which is the ONE site that should be seen, if one can see only one.)

But my point was, and is, that the site remains an interesting place to explore, and an important one for anyone interested in the history of the island. It was a place where people lived and worked (I am sure you have seen, and perhaps have been moved, as I have, by - for example - the pottery workshops). My post was not intended to summarise all that is known about Knossos, it was simply intended as a corrective to yours, which discouraged Hikerroeland from visiting Knossos. Discouraging people from visiting Knossos is not something I would ever do.

[Ray]

I am afraid that the more I learn about the early history of Crete, and I have studied and explored the sites extensively, the less I agree with Sir Arthur Evans.

What he calls the Minoans are in fact referred to as eretocretans (early cretans) and very little is known about them. The cities of knossos and festos, and it is hard to be really accurate here, may well have been developed by what we now call the Mycenaeans. The newly recovered village of Akrotiri on santorini (Hera) is also being called Minoan, but there is no evidence of a Minoan civilisation. The Mycenaeans were with other greek states the victors at Troy. When the santorini earthquake and volcano occurred approximately 1450 BC there was also an earthquake on Crete as well as a Tsunami (probably). Since the Mycenaeans had been at the height of their civilisation circa 1600 BC, why then had they not integrated into Crete? The battle for troy is dated as between 1600 BC and 1250 BC - no-one is sure but I would guess at pre 1500 BC.

Later the Dorians came to Crete (900 - -800 BC) and they being a pretty military state rather like the spartans, took over cities in Crete from the Mycenaeans such as Knossoss and Festos and founded more cities such as Aptera and Gortyn etc. Each city was a city state and there were wars and alliances between them. There was said to be more than a 100 such city states on Crete and many cities existed beyond Roman times. So how could Evans excavate Knossos with more than a thousand years of Mycenaean and Dorian history taking place on that site and him never even noticing?

Just a simple question really . . .

Ray

[hikerroeland]

I am also trying to find some information between the area Sissi- Elounda and north of Neapoli (I can only find a little information about this area with google)There is little tourism in this area and beautiful (I have been told).Can anyone help?
Roeland

[chorianos]

On the one hand, you have “mass-tourism” tourists who come to Crete. The reps of these package holiday tour operators have to sell as much excursions as possible. Knossos is a “must do” for those kind of tourists. They can go for my part, and I will not tell them not to do so, but on the other hand, you have also “more-value seeker” tourists, of which I think Roeland is one, following his postings. These kind of tourists I advice not to go to Knossos, but to visit Festos with a good guide, far away from the mythological stories and the forgeries made by Evans. Before I said that 85% was fake, but from the remaining 15%, some parts are Mycenaean and Dorian, like Ray explained us very clear. What’s left then what is “pure minoan”? (I use here the name “Minoan” to make my point, but I would rather speak about the Keftiu or Eretocretans > see Rays posting) Do you know that there are existing plans to build a huge glass dome over Knossos with a mono-rail train that will carry the visitors around the site?