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Little Cove In Kokkino Chorio


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#1 Laid Back Lil

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Posted 01 December 2007 - 12:25 PM

Hi everyone. As you know we've got a place in Kokkino Chorio. Less than a mile from us is a beautiful cove, accessible by a track, and then a zig-zag steep roadway down to the beach..(not for the faint-hearted like myself). :( You can park on the beach (what there is of it - maybe big enough for 10 cars only). The first part of the beach (where the cars are) is sand, then large rounded rocks leading into the sea. Totally unspoilt, no facilities etc, a fantastic place to snorkel and feed the fish etc in absolutely crystal clear water. However, last week when we visited, we were told of another cove not far from this one. Instead of going down the zig zag bit, we walked straight on down a dusty track-way, and then came to some concrete man-made very steep steps down the cliff. At the bottom of the steps there is a cave with steps cut into it, going down and coming out the other side into a magical tiny cove, where the water gently laps mauve/purple rocks. Steps have been cut into the rock face to enable people to get to a massive cave (which again being faint-hearted and not wearing proper shoes I did not go in. :lol: ... plus the fact it was very very dark!). B) Now, getting to the point I'm trying to make - can anyone throw any light on who made those first set of concrete steps down and who made the rock steps through the cave into the cove. This area was heavily populated by the Germans at one time and we wonder if this particular cove was used during the war. If you look on Google Earth, you can see the first cove, but you cannot clearly see the one a bit further than I am talking about. Any info would be appreciated please.

#2 Pam

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Posted 01 December 2007 - 03:45 PM

No information, I'm afraid, but it sounds absolutely idyllic. Unfortunately, we're unlikely ever to get there - sounds a bit too hairy for me now my left leg has taken to giving way on me (result of a nasty break in a scooter accident in my teens). Maybe we'll explore when we're next in the area, though and see it from above.

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#3 Wim

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Posted 01 December 2007 - 04:43 PM

Is this the cove Lil?

Posted Image

B)

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#4 Laid Back Lil

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Posted 01 December 2007 - 10:19 PM

Hi Wim, bearing in mind I'm not a technical person B) I've tried my best here. I've looked at your coordinates and that's heading down towards Georgiopolis - too far on the other side. Try bearings as follows:
35 28 10 22 N 24 13 57 63 E
You can see a small cove before this with a red roof (which is a roof of the sun shelter that;s ont he beach of the cove before the one I'm talking about. Follow the road up to this bearing and it's there.
Let me know if this works okay

#5 Laid Back Lil

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Posted 01 December 2007 - 10:49 PM

Wim, Pam, just managed to upload three shots of the cove in Gallery if you're interested. If you look at my previous album you'll see the first cove that I talked about, where there's no facilities etc but great for snorkelling etc. In my second album there's the cove I'm asking questions about. Happy viewing.... and do let me know your thoughts. Wim - have you worked it out on Google yet?

#6 Wim

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 01:07 AM

Just saw your pics Lil, looks very secretive to me. Seen the concrete staircase one would suggest a frequent use of it, why bother if you only go there once or twice?. Some war relict or maybe even a transit area for runners?

Was there any storage possibility? If not it might as well be a sort of save heaven for fishermen. But it is very intriguing indeed.

Shall we say a bottle of rachi for the one who comes up with the solution? :lol:

B) Posted Image

The place

The staircase

Posted Image

another one with the purple colours

Posted Image


And the stair details

Posted Image



The general overview




Posted Image




And this must be spot you mentioned.




Posted Image
True is that adage: "He who yields to rule by wooden heads, becomes himself a fool."

#7 Laid Back Lil

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 10:59 AM

Hi Wim - you are a wizz at all this.... the last pictures, Koutalas beach.... this is the first cove where the snorkelling is wonderful - not the cove I'm asking questions about.

If you park at the top and continue walking along the track for about 10-15 mins, then you come to the steps etc to the other cove/cave. Once you've gone down the steps and out the other side to the purple bit, there's a huge cave - couldn't see any storage facilities... very dark and being the whoos I am, I didn't go in. however, did hold the camera out into the middle of nowhere to take a picture of the inside but it didn't come out very well.

And so everyone, back to the question .... anyone know anything about them.

Pam - when you're next out, go past the new garden centre in Plaka with it on your left. Continue for about 4-5 minutes until the road forks. Take left fork and continue for about 3 minutes, take the left track, head down towards a big house on the right. Park here. don't go down to the cove you see which is in Wim's pictures with the red tin roof, walk the track/dusty roadway and follow it round and you'll find the 'hidden purple cove'. magical..... truly magical

#8 Mike &Jane

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 11:13 AM

Hi Laid back Lil, Wim & Pam

If you can get hold of Bob and Annas walks book 1, walk 2 describes the walk to the caves. I think this is where you are.

If you don't have it PM me and I will copy it out for you. I am sure you will have heard of Bob and Ann as they organise walks around Kalives & Almirida throughout the summer. Wonderful people.

Best Wishes and Good Luck

Mike & Jane

#9 Laid Back Lil

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 11:33 AM

Hello Mike & Jane - how are you both? As you can tell we shot out there again - can't leave the place alone. Funny actually - when we were coming home and waiting at Chania airport we bumped into another couple that we talked to back in September, who also can't leave the place alone! No I haven't seen the walks bit, I'll pm you in a mo - would be very interested in this. Thanks.

#10 lars

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 12:24 PM

Hej Laid Back Lil,
What a nice little beach and also exciting caves.
If it was used during the war then some of the men in Kokkino Xorio must know,
Usually when I visit the village, there are always some "boys" sitting at the kafenion and they are always happy to tell stories about their famous village.
Have you asked them, they might bring some light to the coves (what a sentence that became!)?
I found 3 names: Petsi or Karavotopos, Katalimata and finally Elephant Cave but I guess you already knew those.
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#11 lars

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 12:59 PM

Have a look at this:
http://www.greeksocc...showtopic=12218

Look down the page and you will find some photos also taken in K C.
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#12 Laid Back Lil

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 02:03 PM

Hi Lars thanks for this. We've seen the entrance to the cave (that I scrolled down to see on your link) and it's not for the faint-hearted. It's very dark, loads of bats etc and you definitely need torches and sure-footing shoes. At the time when we found it we had none of these things on us. One of the entrances is actually near the NC houses that have been built up at the back of Kokkino Chorio.

Unfortunately we didn't have time this time to chat in the villages as we were only out for 4 days/3 nights on this visit and this was a quick jaunt to see what we had been told by neighbours. When we go back we will certainly chat with the locals to see what it's all about if we can't find out beforehand.

It is beautiful though isn't it! Thanks again.

#13 Pam

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 02:58 PM

Hi, Laid Back Lil - thanks for the pics, looks wonderful. We'll try and find it when we're there next. Not sure when that'll be - I've booked flights for early June, but don't think we can wait that long - might try to get out early April again.

Anyway, need to get off and cook apple and blackberry crumble for Sunday dinner this evening!

Mike & Jane, no, we've not heard of that walking book, but then we're relatively new to Kalyves. I'll PM you tomorrow and would be really grateful for a copy.

Pam & Bob

#14 Mike &Jane

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 09:19 AM

Hi Pam - I am sorry I can't reproduce the Walks Booklet as it is copyright, but next time you are in Kalives go to the Papyrus Bookshop (just up from the Laundry towards the National Road) where Bob and Anns books are on sale. Even if you don't do the walks you will be contributing to the Charity RNIB which benefits from sales of the booklets.

To Wim - can we claim the bottle of Raki now!

Best wishes

Mike & Jane

#15 Tim

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 01:22 PM

What an interesting thread that Lil has started - and how does lars find the most remotest of sites on the web!
I zoomed out of the Google earth reference and quickly realised that it must have been the perfect spot to have observed what was coming in and out of Souda Bay, and what a valuable site it would have been for covert activities in the war. I have never noticed any references to it in any of the books I have or official papers to date, but it does seem to have great strategic potential and was I am sure used for such purposes. I do know that there were Cretan agents providing information as the what shipping was coming and going.
The concrete steps are interesting. I don't for one moment think they date back to the war but do wonder, like Wim, why anyone would construct them for 'casual' use. There is a similarity to some of the places in my part of the world (devon & Cornwal) in that it is a great hiding place close to shipping routes - and one wonders if post war they were put to use evading the customs authorities.
Does anyone have a photo of the entrance to the steps? Were they well hidden or open?
By the by, it seems time spent using Google earth to check out an area prior to visiting, can be time very well spent. I doubt that any guide book mentions Lil's beach!

#16 Emma1310

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 06:36 PM

I zoomed out of the Google earth reference and quickly realised that it must have been the perfect spot to have observed what was coming in and out of Souda Bay, and what a valuable site it would have been for covert activities in the war


Wonder if this is the same tool Americans use in Iraq?

B)

Just out of interest Tim, why do you think the steps don't date back to the 1940's?

Is the cove in question the same one described on the greeksoccer forum posted by Lars?
Now is the time for drinking, now the time to beat the earth with unfettered foot.

#17 Wim

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Posted 04 December 2007 - 03:36 PM

Pam, old girl scout, would you be so kind as to fill me in if it's North or South from the red roofed shed and also what is "One of the entrances is actually near the NC houses that have been built up at the back of Kokkino Chorio." " The back of a village" is usually a 360o circel :) , so is it N or E or S or W and what are NC houses? And how can I tell the difference between the other houses?

Great uptill know we have:
1. A tunnel entrance.
2. A tunnel of some ? kilometers lenth.
3. A cave
4. A corridor with a conrete staircase
5. A cove that gives a view over Souda Bay

(And vice versa) B)

Which brings us to Lil's question; "Now, getting to the point I'm trying to make - can anyone throw any light on who made those first set of concrete steps down and who made the rock steps through the cave into the cove."


Since I can't imagine that fishermen would dig a tunnel of that length, to keep dry to enter a boat, and then go out fishing and get wet is not logical. :D

The view over Souda Bay is both interesting for runners and armies. So I think that Tim and I have to share a bottle of Rachi.

Oh and Tim, why do you considder it to be impossible that it dates back to the war?. Or maybe which war? Concrete was already known by the Romans, albeit without ferro.
If it does not date back to the war than it must have been made in advance or afterwards.

If it was made in advance than we both could be right as well, that is; both for runners and for overlooking Souda Bay for whatever reason. And if it was made after the war we also could be right for the same reason.

Unless somebody comes up with the real solution, and no: Mike and Jane did not win the Rachi for they did not come up with the solution to the question Pam posted :P

I placed a marker on the spot where I suppose one of the entrances is situated. Wonder if you people can see it Google Earth, did it today and don't know how long it takes to become "worldwide"
In my GE it is fixed complete with a link to the pic though, from the boy of the soccer site.




B)
True is that adage: "He who yields to rule by wooden heads, becomes himself a fool."

#18 Emma1310

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Posted 04 December 2007 - 04:38 PM

Arthur Evans knew ALL about concrete in the 1920's!!

B)

(Just thought of a dreadful pun involving con and Crete but will have to work on context).
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#19 Wim

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Posted 04 December 2007 - 04:46 PM

B) :) :) :P
B)

:D
True is that adage: "He who yields to rule by wooden heads, becomes himself a fool."

#20 Laid Back Lil

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Posted 04 December 2007 - 05:11 PM

Hi everyone, can now join in again as I'm back from work!

I'll break it down bit by bit - firstly to

Tim - I haven't got a picture of the steps before the one Wim kindly posted here with my other half on the steps but I can describe them for you. There were about 25 or so steep steps. No railings, but there were originally as the rusty bits were sticking out the side of the steps. The steps were made of concrete and small stones, and were about 3 ft wide, about 7" tall, and only about a size 6 in depth possibly a little more. Took you down to a small-ish flat area before turning right into the cave bit where you see my other half standing on the other steps.

Wim - the google earth shot you have posted. If you look at the second 'k' in kokkino chorio and follow the road upwards towards the coast until it runs out, that's where the steps were/are. Now, NC means New Century houses. Can't unfortunately tell you N, E, W, S etc as I haven't a clue and I can't find them on google....

Moving on to sorting out Lars's tunnels/caves etc.... there is an entrance to these in Kokkino Chorio by the little church in the village and we have been told (second-hand, possibly third) that the Germans who were there got the men to dig this tunnel out for them and it was used as a look out across the waters of Souda. Now, we actually haven't found the entrnace to these caves by the church. What we found was.... an entrance by the New Century Houses (mostly all stone-built). It used to be a dusty track-way and at the end of it (in the village) was about 30 possibly more, New Century Houses, all fenced off while they were building them. Now the road has been laid with tarmac and the fences removed as people have started moving in etc. Going down the tarmac road, almost to the end but not quite, there's a road to the right (all still part of the New Century development) and at the end, it bears left up a steep hill (only 20 yards or so). We parked here to take in the views across Souda Bay and then noticed the other entrance to the tunnel.

I've trawled through my photos on the pc and in fact have found some we took of this entrance and I've just posted them in my gallery.

Note however, this entrance/tunnel/etc is nowhere near the cove/cave my original question asked about - that's up the track (on google earth pic you posted Wim).

Hope this helps all and explains a bit of my ramblings etc. Let me know your thoughts etc B) Lil :P