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Containerharbour In Timbaki, Part 1


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#241 Ton

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Posted 18 December 2006 - 07:13 PM

From today's patris www.patris.gr
Mr- Matzapetakis from the PASOK Political party after having contacted Chinese Officials, declared that they have not much interest in the construction of a port in the south part of the Heraklion province.

#242 Ton

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Posted 22 December 2006 - 11:36 AM

Read the latest:

http://www.no-contai...et/facts_en.php

merry Christmas to you all
Ton

#243 Pam

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Posted 22 December 2006 - 04:01 PM

Wow - there's certainly a lot of information here - thanks for the link, Ton.

I shall have a proper read through when I've completed Xmas prep - got to go and pick up meat etc now.

Merry Christmas to you.

Pam

#244 Wim

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Posted 22 December 2006 - 08:13 PM

Gee Ton, are you one of them too B) ..??



I am the walrus..... :unsure:
True is that adage: "He who yields to rule by wooden heads, becomes himself a fool."

#245 Ton

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Posted 25 December 2006 - 02:41 PM

The Greek National University study about the port in Timbaki will cost 45,000 Euro.

Iam very curious to see the outcome of the study which should be finished by today. I hope they make a Phd thesis out of it so for sure we will not have a port for the next 5 years. :unsure:


B) Στα 45.000 ευρώ ανέρχεται η αμοιβή του Μετσόβιου Πολυτεχνείου για την μελέτη σκοπιμότητας αναφορικά με το λιμάνι στο Τυμπάκι. Χθες στον ΟΛΗ ενέκριναν το σχετικό κονδύλι.

#246 Dinny

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Posted 04 January 2007 - 09:15 AM

Had coffee with Ton & family the other day, so he asked me to update you on the University study: They have asked for an extension of one month, before they can deliver the outcome of the study.



As far as I'm concerned it has been too many months with this sword hanging over our heads. It should be possible to claim damages!!! All this waiting, waiting, waiting is making me nervous!!

#247 santo

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Posted 04 January 2007 - 12:12 PM

Sometimes it's worth the wait to get the right answer, if your getting impatient crack open another bottle of wine B) by the way did you ever give us an update on the wine you bought as to whether it was ok/good/brilliant ?????



:blush: ;)
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#248 Dinny

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Posted 07 January 2007 - 10:27 AM

Yes, I did, Santo B)

#249 Ton

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Posted 17 January 2007 - 06:19 PM

Hi everyone and have a happy new year. The latest on the port issue is that on the 22nd of January a group of professors is arriving in Timpaki in order to perform a feasibility study about the container port. The big joke is that the head of the Athens University Mr. Kostas Moutzouris who is leading the group of professors coming to Timpaki, has already concluded that the port can be constructed in a way which can have minimum impact to the environment.

#250 santo

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Posted 17 January 2007 - 06:29 PM

Ton, surely putting Mr Moutzouris in charge can't be right, the group could be influenced by his decisions and would make the report biased B) :D

Then again somebody in government could have ensured he was picked to obtain the right outcome (for them) :blush:


Glad to see you back on the site my friend, hope the "Castle" is looking Kooool B)



:D
Santo

It's not the number of breaths you take, it's the moments that take your breath away.

#251 Ton

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Posted 17 January 2007 - 06:45 PM

Yea Santo I just hope that when the professors see all the garbage in the streets between Heraklion and Timpaki will tell the minister 'Manolis this area needs a study to build an incineration plant not a container port' As for Mr. Moutzouris I think he will do exactly what is expected from him!!!

#252 Wim

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Posted 18 January 2007 - 12:27 AM

Thanks Ton.



For keeping us informed in such an explicate way.

We, the members of this board, depend on the information we can get and able to read.



As for me you are the obligatory intermediate in this matter.



:lol:
True is that adage: "He who yields to rule by wooden heads, becomes himself a fool."

#253 Ton

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Posted 18 January 2007 - 12:35 PM

Yes sir!!!

#254 Ton

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Posted 19 January 2007 - 12:19 PM

The koreans will be tomorrow in Timbaki. They are coming to get topographical info so they can prepare their study about the port. The new location has been decided but the official border lines between the sea and the beach where the port can be made have not yet been defined. I guess the Koreans will have again some good mezedaki, fasoulada and lahano salata and go back to Korea with new dates of when the can come back to finish their drawings. In the mean time we can still enjoy South Crete while it lasts.

#255 Ton

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Posted 20 January 2007 - 04:15 PM

The Koreans arrived as u can see from the picture on the first page of the Cretan Paper Patris.

http://www.patris.gr/issue

On Monday The University professors are arriving on order to do their studies about the port. At the end of the month we are expecting 3 studies to be finalised.
1- Korean
2- Ministry of destruction of the environment
3- Athens University

My question is how can anyone I mean anyone give a study to the university of Athens if one looks at the state the city of Athens is today. Surely the same professors or their parents are responsible for what Athens is today. A petroupolis a concretoupolis a monster of modern Greek civilization. Athens is competing with cities of the old communist regimes even though Athens has never been under communism. I mean no parks with trees, small tacky and dirty roads with a lot of holes, tall concrete buildings everywhere, garbage in the streets, dogs and cats with no owners all around. And the amazing thing is that all cars are parked left and right from the streets (half sided to the pavements) so pedestrians have to walk on dog shit to go to do the bakery. And really we take these professors from Athens to do a study of an unspoiled place in order to have them recommend how to screw it up. No thank you!!! Mr Moutzouris allready said that he thinks that if the study is done properly then a port can be realized in Timpaki. Why is he then coming next week?

#256 Assim

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Posted 20 January 2007 - 11:31 PM

Dear Ton,

You start by discrediting the author/s of the study and using this to justify, or try to justify the invalidity of it, based on where the author/s lives and the mistakes of their forefathers. You don't mention the qualifications and expertise they have in this area, which is the important factor. This time they plan to do a study first, whereas Athens was built up at a time of mass imigration and lack of intervention from the then goverments, which resulted in uncontrolled and unauthorised building.

I take exception to your description and inaccuracies about Athens, which you are only using for an end to a means with no obvious experience or historical knowlege of what you are talking about. It is a city and a capital city at that, and can stand shoulder to shoulder with many other European cities.

I believe you haven't been here, or at minimum just passed through without stopping to see what Athens has to offer. You state "Athens is competing with cities of the old communist regimes even though Athens has never been under communism." Athens hasn't ever been under communism, no, but it has been under a dictatorship. Anyway this unqualified statement has no relevance to the ability of the professors to create a study.

"I mean no parks with trees". This is a massive exageration. I live in the centre, 5 minutes walk from Omonia, 10 minutes from Syntagma. There is a park next to me that covers a large area, has many trees, 3 childrens playgrounds for all ages. The one for under 6 year olds being nestled in the trees so it affords shade in the hot summer. In the other direction there is the National gardens, behind the Tomb of the Unknown soldier on Amalias street. Formerly The Kings Garden it is like a tropical paradise right in the middle of Athens. You can spend hours wandering around the shaded pathways past flowers and trees and ducks. There are two duck ponds and there are the remains of ancient Athens scattered around. Athens is surrounded by forest land. In just 10 minutes with the car or on the motorbike we are up the hills, in the trees, looking across the city. Then there is the Lycabettus rising up in the centre of Athens. To get to the top you can take a walk up a footpath through the trees that surround the hill.

"small tacky and dirty roads with a lot of holes". This is a description of most, if not all of the capital cities in Europe. Due to the very nature that they have evolved from before the day of the car, when all that was necessary was a narrow street.

"tall concrete buildings everywhere". Surely it is better to expand upwards on existing built on land, than spread even further out and build on the parks and mountains that have the trees? We have to find modern day solutions for housing all the people that want to live in the city.

"garbage in the streets" I'm not sure what the professors of Athens university are supposed to do about this? Currently there are some problems with the landfills being full and last summer there was the strike by the bin men. Outside these types of events the rubbish is cleared from the streets every night, twice a night, and also the recycling system is getting up and running well. You describe an Athens of old, when it was famous for its smog. This is no longer a true reflection of Athens.

"dogs and cats with no owners all around." I posted this a while ago on another forum but I think it applies here too when people who do not know or live in the area complain about the animals :
The dogs in the centre, are part of the community here. They are fed and have constant water supplies. In return they sit outside the shops on their piece of cardboard keeping a watchful eye over the comings and goings. There was talk of rounding them up and putting them all to sleep for the Olympics, so that visitors wouldn't be upset by them. All the strays in the area had collars fitted by the locals so that they didn't look like strays, just in case. As it turned out there was such a local outcry, that it never happened.
The cats are also fed in certain spots, that is those that don't get their food from their local taverna. I see many an old and possibly lonely person putting scraps down for them. They bring a pleasure to some who need it.

"And the amazing thing is that all cars are parked left and right from the streets (half sided to the pavements) so pedestrians have to walk on dog shit to go to do the bakery." Parking is being addressed at the moment as the scheme is rolled out through Athens. They could always do a London and charge extortionate fees to let people into the centre, but somehow I dont think the 5 million residents will allow that to happen.

"And really we take these professors from Athens to do a study of an unspoiled place in order to have them recommend how to screw it up."
I really don't understand how parking, dog sh*t, small roads and garbage is the fault of a university professor and makes them unqualified to do a study.

I would also like to say. I live in Athens and I love Greece, It is my home. I think this port is important for Greece for reasons that have been stated before, ie jobs economic diversity. Greece has to move forward, not just stay in the now to keep the tourists and retiree's happy. The world is a big place, tomorrow is another day and they [tourist, retirees] may go elsewhere. If the port is not built in Greece it will be built elsewhere, I don't want us [Greece] to miss out on this opportunity.

Assim

#257 mfc

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Posted 20 January 2007 - 11:59 PM

well said that person.

#258 Ton

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Posted 21 January 2007 - 01:20 AM

Dear Assim,

Well I am glad u like Athens so much since u live there. Yes there are few parks around but if u go to Google Earth and look from above the amount of green/square km then u can see reality. I feel sorry for u and your family breathing on a daily basis the fresh gas fumes/exhaust in the area of Omonia square. Did u say noise? No.. No... I did not say anything about noise pollution. In the summer I am sure u take your family to a Greek island to escape from the smog and the Athenian heat and dust wave. Well its about these islands which you like to go for holidays (please dont tell me Athens is your holiday place) which we do not want to convert to areas like Elefsis and Skaramangas and Aspropyrgos etc.

In fact Assim u confirmed everything I said, now these are your words:
1. 'which resulted in uncontrolled and unauthorised building.' **What a shame***
2. small tacky and dirty roads with a lot of holes". This is a description of most, if not all of the capital cities in Europe ****Not true by the way***
3.garbage in the streets.Currently there are some problems with the landfills being full and last summer there was the strike by the bin men.
4.The cats are also fed in certain spots, that is those that don't get their food from their local taverna. I see many an old and possibly lonely person putting scraps down for them**How kind of u mentioning that there are special spots to feed the cats and the dogs!!! In fact you forgot to mention how many dogs and cats are poissoned on a daily basis!! Athens my friend is competing with Bucarest in homeless dogs and cats and is a shame.
5.Parking is being addressed at the moment as the scheme is rolled out through Athens.


If the port is not built in Greece it will be built elsewhere, I don't want us [Greece] to miss out on this opportunity.

Iam missing something out from your above statement Assim. Well the Koreans will make money out of the construction of the port, the Chinese will make money out of the Management of the port, the Government will make money charging fees, the shipowners will make money because the chinese will use their boats. What is it for u?

By the way most roads in Crete and the rest of Greece were made during the Dictatorship. At the same time most villages in Crete received for the first time electricity.

If you want to improve things in Athens you should not be afraid to see the truth. But unfortunatelly truth always hearts doesn't it? Perhaps you should take your family and visit south Crete and see the place where they want to bring the container boats and everything else which comes with it.

#259 Assim

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Posted 21 January 2007 - 01:38 AM

Ok I'll make the question shorter. Why does the fact you don't like Athens make the study by the university professors invalid?

#260 Ton

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Posted 21 January 2007 - 11:53 AM

Because No 1. The head of professors Mr. Moutzouris from one side says that the study will be independent and not influenced by anyone on the other side he concludes (in his interview a couple of days ago in the Apopsi tou Notou news paper) by saying that the port can be constructed in a way which will have no impact to the environment.

Because No.2 The study has been requested and financed directly by the ministry.

Because No 3. As I said look at the state of Athens. I do not blame the professors. If u pay them right they can make u anything. Iam sure when they created in Los Alamos the little boy and the fat man they were also thinking that they were serving a blessing to the environment. If I am not wrong it was the mistake of a Greek professor archeologist engineer who put iron metal rods inside the ancient pilars of Acropolis thinking that he could sustain them this way. Of course the iron supports rusted with disasterous results. My conclusion is that the professors will perform a study which serves the interests of the one who pays them. Otherwise he will not finance them again or cut their budget for other technical studies. They also make mistakes.

And last talking about trees. Read today's Greek papers. They are discussing about reviewing the Article 24 of the Greek constitution which protects the forest zones in Greece. Why? because they want to create more building areas resulting millions of Euros. And if they do not change the constitution to give them legal ways to destroy trees they will do it like always but setting deliberate fires in the summer.

Assim wake up and if u really love Athens as I do (since I was born and grew up there) you will try to phase the truth and its consequences and raise your voice in a democratic way to those who have destroyed this beautifull once being city.

Have a nice day
Ton