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Containerharbour In Timbaki, Part 2


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#61 Emma1310

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Posted 20 November 2007 - 05:05 PM

I take it Crete doesn't need a container port in order to expand a current industry?

From what you've said, Ton, it sounds more like Greece needs a container port and they just can't decide on a suitable location. Is that the case?

I'm slightly suspicious of the Chinese involvement in this matter. I know they rely heavily on container ports to ship huge amounts of cargo into the EU. Maybe they were hoping the Greek government would be a pushover and wouldn't look too closely at their operating practises. I know the EU needs chinese imports but I don't think this should be at the cost of European jobs or environment.
Now is the time for drinking, now the time to beat the earth with unfettered foot.

#62 Retired in Crete

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Posted 20 November 2007 - 08:25 PM

Hey Wim

You said:

"Just mailed a question to the European Parliament. Since you all read my link to the Parliamentary questions I need not to mention where it was about."

...........but I suggested that you did this in August 2006!

Remember my post?:

"As you rightly say, Greece is part of the European Union but Greece, like the rest of the Union, is a democracy. The Greek people voted for the current government which wants this project to go ahead (for the reasons outlined in my posts). The E U is also a democracy (sort of, could start another thread about that!) If you think that Greece is reneging on promises to protect wildlife, or anything else you do not like, your protests should be directed to your Euro MP. This is the way democracy works."

What took you so long?

John
Cornwall - Great at any time of the year.

#63 Wim

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Posted 20 November 2007 - 11:00 PM

:D John!!

You shouldn't have suggest but ordered :D

I probably thought things would work out in a sort of way but, after reading all the comments on this forum, I woke up and wrote my €-mp.

God, no not you John, I realy feel an European citizen now :D and please God save our Parliament that rules the flow...

;)

B)
True is that adage: "He who yields to rule by wooden heads, becomes himself a fool."

#64 Ton

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Posted 21 November 2007 - 12:04 PM

Hahahahaha!! Democracy!!! The only country these days with real democracy is Switzerland. The rest of the world Iam afraid is living on a mockery and dream of democracy. Even in the country claiming to be the land of the free in the last elections the majority voted for Gore but Bush was elected on technicalities. How can that be possible? Hahahaah!!!Come on guys let us be serious. In nowdays politics and business is one thing. How can we have actors, basketball players and showbusiness guys becoming politicians these days and we expect that the world is not in a mess?
Did anyone hear about "Undaria pinnatifida"???
Well it's a agressive sea weed which came with tankers and container boats from ASIA and is now spreading like hell all along the Adriatic and Ionian sea bed killing all existent organisms and fish. Its a matter of time before it comes closer to Crete.
The people of Crete.... yes! they need a port in South Crete but not a Container Port thank you very much.

#65 Wim

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Posted 21 November 2007 - 02:11 PM

Hi Ton,

Did you, on purpose, twist my ironic comment about "democracy" ? Just to expose your's :D
I just love ambiguouse comments :D they give so much to read.
Am working on a amtriguouse version....

;)
True is that adage: "He who yields to rule by wooden heads, becomes himself a fool."

#66 Ton

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Posted 21 November 2007 - 03:36 PM

You are right though on your statement above. I believe we are on the same frequency Wim, I just tried to clear the mist behind your ambiguosity. By the way I like your style and the way you write things to pass a message. However I do not think that everyone can follow your thoughts without having read all your comments in the last couple of years.

#67 Emma1310

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Posted 21 November 2007 - 04:30 PM

I did think of explaining that the only democratically elected part of the EU has very little power and all the power and decision-making lies with the Council and unelected Commission, but I see Wim has a handle on the fallacy of EU democracy.

:D
Now is the time for drinking, now the time to beat the earth with unfettered foot.

#68 Ton

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Posted 06 January 2008 - 11:17 PM

According to the Greek News Paper Kathimerini www.kathimerini.gr from the 5th of 2008, Timbaki is not part of the greek ports which will be included in the greek and foreign development investment planning. The mentioned ports which will be TARGETED in the future are PIREAUS, THESSALONIKI, ALEXANDROUPOLIS, IGOUMENITSA, CORFU, HERAKLION, VOLOS, PATRAS, ELEFSIS.

Στο «στόχαστρο» των μεγάλων ξένων επενδυτικών σχημάτων και διεθνών διαχειριστών λιμένων έχουν μπει τα 8 δισ. ευρώ, περίπου, που θα δαπανηθούν τα επόμενα πέντε έτη, για την αναβάθμιση των λιμενικών εγκαταστάσεων σε Πειραιά, Θεσσαλονίκη, Ηγουμενίτσα, Κέρκυρα, Ηράκλειο, Αλεξανδρούπολη, Βόλο, Πάτρα, Ηράκλειο και Ελευσίνα.

#69 Wim

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Posted 08 January 2008 - 02:05 PM

This is great news, if its definite Ton.

The reverse side of it all is of course that now Heraklion will become the victim. Wonder where they would plan this container harbour. East- or west-wards??

;)
True is that adage: "He who yields to rule by wooden heads, becomes himself a fool."

#70 Ton

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Posted 09 January 2008 - 12:10 PM

All it means is that the Government will modernize existing Greek facilities to become more efficient and thus more cost competitive. They are still thinking though that South Crete needs a port in the south (The gate of the South) but somewhere west of Aghia Galini and not necessarily a container port. In my view the idea of the container port in South Crete is not anymore feasible (actually has never been feasible) because of the following facts:
1. The price of the oil went up (which makes the transport of goods more expensive to the transport companies). Crete does not have rail and highways to further distribute the goods. They would need to transfer them again by boats or air which adds more costs until the goods reach their final destination.
2. The cost of borrowing money is incresingly becoming more and more expensive.
3. Investors will invest their money in more secure and risk free projects i.e no investors can be found for such a big scale port project in South Crete and only for containers. Most investors would only risk their money if the government puts at least half of the project money in order to mitigate the risk.

So for the time being Wim you can blissfully be oblivious to your retirement in Aghia Galini for the next 20 years without having to worry about Chinese container ships polluting and disturbing your state of unconcious mind.

#71 Wim

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Posted 09 January 2008 - 01:23 PM

Thanks Ton,

You're informative as always.
Love the one about my unconsciousness mind. So glad you didn't mean "κωματώδης"



;)
True is that adage: "He who yields to rule by wooden heads, becomes himself a fool."

#72 Ton

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Posted 09 January 2008 - 02:59 PM

lol!! ;) B) :D

#73 Wim

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 07:46 PM

Φιλe μου Τον,

We were sceptic about the European Council, weren't we? Well I got news for you, they answered my mail. ;)

Don't know if you are into the German lingo but this was the original question from Michael Cramer to the "commission" and it's answer by Frau Hübner.

http://www.michael-c...ehr/346886.html

If you want to know about Frau H. this is the link:

http://ec.europa.eu/...round_gr_en.htm
http://ec.europa.eu/...er/index_en.htm

The site from the directorate regional, the regional local developments are these:

http://ec.europa.eu/...cy/index_en.htm
http://ec.europa.eu/...ts/index_en.htm

REGIO-CONSULT-RUP@ec.europa.eu (email address)

When you open this link : http://europa.eu/rap...;guiLanguage=en

you get some interesting information about "The Operational Programme framework laid out for the Convergence and Regional Competitiveness and employment on Crete and the Aegean islands.
Seems there is a lot of money reserved for this developments.

So, when they finally answer they smother you with info.

:blush:
True is that adage: "He who yields to rule by wooden heads, becomes himself a fool."

#74 Ton

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Posted 16 January 2008 - 02:59 PM

Hi Wim, Thanks very much for all this information. I need sometime to digest all the got news!! One question somehow spontaniously pops out of me... and that is... Who the heck on Crete can capitalize on all the got intensions the EU has for Crete?
Cheers m8

#75 Emma1310

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Posted 16 January 2008 - 04:18 PM

That's a good point, Ton.

Most EU capital projects require 50% of the capital to be input by the recipient, whether this is raised by the state or private finance.
Now is the time for drinking, now the time to beat the earth with unfettered foot.

#76 Wim

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Posted 16 January 2008 - 04:39 PM

Yes but still,

2. Overview

On 5 November 2007, the European Commission approved an Operational Programme for Greece for the period 2007-13. The Operational Programme “Crete and the Aegean Islands” involves Community support for 3 NUTS II regions of the Greek Islands: Crete, the North Aegean islands, and the South Aegean islands.
The Operational Programme falls within the framework laid out for the Convergence and Regional Competitiveness and Employment objectives and has a total budget of around € 1 194 billion. Community assistance through the ERDF amounts to some € 871 billion, which represents approximately 4.35% of the total EU money invested in Greece under the Cohesion Policy for 2007-13. That makes a total of € 2 065,- billion :o

Of course this is assistance, so more money is needed as M wrote, 50%? which has to be invested by the Greece government. Who said something about a 50% discount to improve the infrastructure of a country is a bad investment.? We have a saying in Holland "Never shot is always beside the mark" Unless of course the Greek Government is broke and can't even stretch the bow. In that case it's a pity for the available money will than......?

To inform the interested reader here is a link from Wikipedia about the NUTS system. Still the EG produces money and plans to make people prosper. Whatever way you think about the institute .

I'm proud that the Dutch yearly donation to the EG ranks amongst the highest. B)



:D
True is that adage: "He who yields to rule by wooden heads, becomes himself a fool."

#77 Ton

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Posted 02 March 2008 - 12:42 PM

Hi all,

Timbaki port is coming back!! Believe it or not!! It seems the government is pushing alternative solutions to the continiouing ports problems in Greece in order to fight the port workers Unions against privitaization of the ports. The latest news from the site www.no-container-port-in-timbaki.net/facts_eng.php

29th February 2008: An article of [Nea Kriti, 29th February 2008, not online when writing this] reveals that the "Preliminary Study of Environmental Impact" for the project has been approved by the Direction of Environment of the Greek Ministry of Environment, Land Planning and Public Works (this Ministry is noted "YPEXODE" in the following). Note: in spite of what its name might let think, this ministry is first of all the ministry in charge of land planning and decisions regarding big projects like roads, airports, etc.. Indeed, Greece does not have an independent Ministry of Environment. Environmental subjects are managed by this direction of the YPEXODE.
It is precised in the article that the decision of the YPEXODE does not concern the "complementary works" that were presented to local people when presenting the project to them (for example in the video produced by the YEN and showed locally and on national TV channels): the marina, the improvement of the landscape from Agia Galini, the connexion of the transshipment hub with the main roads of Crete, etc... are not included in the decision of the YPEXODE, since "the approbation of the Ministry of Tourism is required for them" (!!!). The decision of the YPEXODE thus exclusively concerns a container transshipment hub.
It is pointed out by the director of the Direction of Environment of the YPEXODE that the final decision of the minister will only be given with the evaluation of the final "Study of Environmental Impact", which can put many constraints on the realisation of the project, up to a point where it could be decided not to do it. The decision of the YPEXODE has been communicated to Heraklion and Rethimno prefectures, and to the OLH.

#78 Wim

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Posted 02 March 2008 - 01:02 PM

My God Ton, (?)

This is disastrous. Thought we were at ease.

You entered a wrong link (404) it should be this one No container harbour
Imagine if all this money was invested in a plan for Constructive Holiday Development of Crete

Do you you know Ton if there was ever raised a plan about creating an artificial harbour island? Would be no problem for the Dutch dredgers now they have finished their job in the Dubai Emirates :rolleyes:

:wub:
True is that adage: "He who yields to rule by wooden heads, becomes himself a fool."

#79 DaveW.

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Posted 02 March 2008 - 02:43 PM

...................not good news about the plans but, heavens above, surely this is overshadowed by a change of name from wim to wim kouros. :rolleyes: When this transformation take place wim? Sorry, wim kouros!
If you look like your passport picture....you probably need the holiday!

#80 Ton

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Posted 02 March 2008 - 04:28 PM

We were at ease Wim but they weren't.. and they will not be until South Crete becomes an industrial dump/mess. The only hope is the E.U governing regulations about Natura 2000. They are even planning a Natural Gas processing plant in South Crete now!!