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Containerharbour In Timbaki, Part 2


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#21 Ton

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Posted 14 May 2007 - 12:38 PM

Wim sorry too but never mind we will meet in the future sometime. I like your new photo.
Dinny, any decisions for the lunch on the 27th??

Today the following article appeared in the Greek Express newspaper.

http://www.express.g...=...7&lang_id=1

Amazing!!!
The minister is now trying to divert the attention and objections of the people from the container port by claiming that the port could also be utilized commercially by bringing passengers and tourist cars from North Africa. Really someone should start thinking that the minister seriously has lost it. The boats will only serve to bring illegal immigrants and cheaper potatoes at the best.

The situation is as follows:

The Greek government prommissed to the Chinese last year that they will give them the management of Greek ports.
The Greek workers of the ports in Pireaus and Thessalonica went on strike last year when they found out about the plans of the Minister with disasterous results for everyone in the shipping business industry.
The Greek Government is now in a Catch 22 situation.

The smart Minister is pushing the Timbaki Story as an exit to the government's dilemma of what to do next. The problem is though that neither the Chinese nor the locals want a port in Timbaki for containers. As for the Koreans they are only interested in selling some modern port hardware/software for container management.

#22 Ton

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Posted 18 May 2007 - 12:14 PM

Read the latest

http://www.no-contai...et/facts_en.php

#23 Wim

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 07:14 PM

Hi Ton,

I've been reading the whole shebang and my goodness what a lot of political circumventions were proposed by this Minister Kefalogiannis. It seems that in order to keep himself in parliament he is prepared to abuse the people and the natural scale of Crete.

Isn't "drama" a Greek word B) Costa-Gravas could almost make a sequel to Z and call it K...
I have checked the Greenpeace site here in Holland and they are not aware of the disaster that is taking place if Kefalogiannis gets his way. So I sent them a mail with the link of no-container-port etc.

Time for a stiff drink :wub:

B)
True is that adage: "He who yields to rule by wooden heads, becomes himself a fool."

#24 Ton

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 10:37 PM

Hi Wim,

Thanks, I think it is a very good idea to inform Greenpeace of this potential ecological disaster. Please let us know if in the future you get any reply from them. I have heard recent roumors that the Greek Government will proceed in mid June with their plans to pass the management of the ports of Pireaus and Thessaloniki to private parties. If this happens there is a small chance that Kefalogiannis might be not so eager to proceed with his containers in South Crete. Ow! another thing. The technical school of Athens report classified the area around Timbaki as not particularly natural beautiful! It is a pitty to see University people falling in the trap of politicians political agendas. I hope in Holland you do not have the same mess as your coleagues in Greece. By the way I have read the report and as a University person myself found it very poor. No conclusions so ever and generating more questions than answers.
I think I will now drink some Raki and pick on some leftovers from lunch. Gosh Iam hungry!

#25 fst

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Posted 23 May 2007 - 12:14 PM

What about the golf investments in Matala. Is this still an actuall project.
I have not heard anything for a while.
Will Matala be destoyed too??

#26 cjmeyer

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Posted 23 May 2007 - 05:54 PM

Geis sas,

concerning Greenpeace:

I informed greenpeace, german section, last Sept of the the planned project.
They replied next day, saying that this will be problem of the greek section and they gave me the email-address.

So, I send the info to the greek section with copy to the german section.... no answer.
I did this three times over 4 weeks... no answer.

As a sponsor of the german section of greenpeace, I complained there... no answer.

In the next email I quit my sponsorship... I received one page of excuses...

So far....
...with archelon.gr the same. Only by writing personnel emails to the directors (the addresses are on their homepage :-) ), I received an answer, they are too small as an organiasation to do something against this project...

...and not only seaturtles we have... we have also sealions on paximadia islands, which have been seen near Matala last winter. This could become a joker...they are also high protected animals.

So, try to inform other sections of greenpeace, may be, they will be more interested, at least because we now have more than 5200 signs in the petition.



Greeting CJMeyer

#27 Ton

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Posted 23 May 2007 - 06:24 PM

Cj meyer thanks for the feedback on Greenpeace. Iam not sure that greenpeace or the turtles nor the sealions for that matter can do anything anyway. If it would be a reverse decision on this project it will mainly come from the people of Agia Galini and the neighboring site of Kalamaki. They are beginning slowly to recognise that the money they have invested for their hotels and rooms will evaporate after the construction of the container port. I believe that once the locals are fully aware that the port is a bad idea for them and the future of their children it will be no more discussion on this subject.

#28 Wim

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Posted 24 May 2007 - 08:56 PM

I agree Ton, the answer I received from Greenpeace Holland came down to the fact that these kind of environment affairs are not on their agenda at the moment. They nowadays focus on the global heating and pollution, be it chemical or caused in a "natural way".

So indeed it is the population of the concerned area that has to do the job, and I'm sure they'll succeed if they stand for their cause. Even though they are a bit late. Almost half a year after the first thread on this forum.

:huh:
True is that adage: "He who yields to rule by wooden heads, becomes himself a fool."

#29 Dinny

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Posted 24 May 2007 - 10:18 PM

In Matala there is a stand during the whole tourist season where they sell items to collect money to protect the turtles. I stopped by today to ask them what they were doing to fight the building of the container harbour. Well, the sweet young girl (from her accent I think she was French) told me that she had just arrived and still needed to see the supervisor, so she didn't really know anything about it. She promised to bring up the subject with the supervisor when she met him/her - and I said that I would be checking in next time I passed to get her answer... :huh:



Post continued on June 13: When I stopped by next time the French girl was happy to announce that YES they are opposing. Unfortunately, she didn't have more information than that, I would have liked to know in which way, what they are doing specifically, since the first entrepreneur machinery to get into action at the new port would mean immediate destruction of the turtles nesting area.

#30 Dinny

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Posted 13 June 2007 - 11:12 AM

Ton (who is happyly away from the internet these days, enjoying a hopefully well-deserved holiday in Pitsidia) asked me to tell you that the Minister-Of-Destruction had been under heavy fire in the Greek Parliament lately being asked why he insisted on going on with these harbour plans in Timbaki when they have already been internationally rejected by the investors. Unfortunately, there was no specific answer to this question. I think the Minister is in a big jam, he can't get out of it without loosing face, so unfortunately he just carries on - since there is no way out - insisting on HIS plans for the Messara area.

#31 Wim

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Posted 13 June 2007 - 03:20 PM

I'm afraid Dinny,

That this illustrates the interest of most of the the locals. Even if they live only a few miles from "ground zero". Matala, and all other villages around the Messara Kolpa, should have a big billboard with extensive info and petition lists ready at hand in case they don't have a pc.

Haven't heard of any more actions from the Galini nor Timbaki front, which leaves me behind with, as we say in Holland, a bad taste in the mouth. B) Neither Greenpeace Greece has mentioned anything about it. They just keep on climbing glass walls and making a fuzz about light bulbs.

I wonder what Yannis actually has to say about this seemingly non interested attitude of the Cretan s. Or do they revolt when the first construction ships arise at the horizon :D ??

Don't hope so, anyhow this is what I found on the forum of Greenpeace International
Maybe we should copy/paste this whole thread into their forum Yannis. And maybe it would be great if you, as a concerned Cretan would add some significant prose about this disaster. Because in this (greenpeace) forum too also the non Cretan s seem to care the most.

I hope I'm wrong. (this time (((( :D ))))

:D
True is that adage: "He who yields to rule by wooden heads, becomes himself a fool."

#32 Ton

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Posted 25 June 2007 - 04:03 PM

This is what we are talking about, this is what can also happen in Timbaki if the port goes ahead. For all of those who are in favour of the port please take a good look what happened in Kali Limenes yesterday. Big oil spill from a boat with a foreign Flag!!!


According to the article from www.cretetv.gr estimated 200 liters (can be more) oil spill from a boat generated yesterday two huge oil slicks in the area of kali Limenes. The tourists are fleeing the area and the Greek coast guard are trying to contain the spill!!!!

We all hope that the spill will be contained and will not reach Comos and Matala negatively affecting the local tourist business and the Turtles.

#33 Ton

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Posted 29 June 2007 - 10:05 AM

Acording to 'Ethnos'http://www.ethnos.gr...2792&word=Cosco

the Chinese are in a hurry and becoming increasingly impatient to purchase the management of the port of Thessaloniki. They are warning that if the Greek government delays further its decision to privatize the 2 major ports of Pireaus and Thessaloniki the investors will look elsewhere in Turkey,Bulgaria and Romania. In a separate article from 'To vima' published in May of this year it has been made clear in the International management of the Shipping world that no one is interested to bring containers in Timbaki and ship them again to other ports. The same article points out that the Minister's plans about a container port in Timbaki are sinking from lack of interest of international investors and the objections of local people and ecologists.

#34 Pam

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Posted 29 June 2007 - 03:37 PM

Hi, Ton, this does sound promising, but at the risk of becoming repetitive, when oh when will we get a decision? Whether this will go ahead or not will substantially affect our decision on where we settle - i.e if the terminal gets built we probably won't choose to live in the Messara.


Thanks for keeping us informed, though

Pam & Bob

#35 Ton

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Posted 02 July 2007 - 11:38 AM

All major container players are focusing their eyes on the port of Thessaloniki (due to its strategic location to the Balcans) and are urging the Greek government to move quickly with its privatization according to the article from Euro2day below.
http://www.euro2day....rticles/131268/

It seems that everybody in the container business realizes that the minister's plans of a container port in Timbaki do not make any sense.
It is increasingly becoming a serious issue for Kefalogiannis to convince anybody that a container port in Timbaki will serve any good.
The only ones interested now in Timbaki are the Koreans who want to sell port management services. However with no serious investors and increasingly local momentum against the port the Koreans would have to wait together with the Chinese for the government to move along with its plans to privatize the Greek ports of Pireaus and Thessaloniki.

#36 Retired in Crete

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Posted 02 July 2007 - 08:29 PM

Ton
Quote: "According to the article from www.cretetv.gr estimated 200 liters (can be more) oil spill from a boat generated yesterday two huge oil slicks in the area of kali Limenes."

This cannot be correct. The fuel tank of a coach or a truck often contains more than 200 litres. Hardly enough, me thinks, to generate "two huge oil slicks".

I case you have forgotten I am in favour of the development for various reasons and I also understand others concerns about it. What I find difficult to understand is the constant exagerations, as in the above, and on the "protest" web-site which talks of 50 ships per day when everyone knows that this should be 5.
If the "anti's" case is so strong exageration is not needed and only detracts from your arguments.

John
Cornwall - Great at any time of the year.

#37 Ton

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Posted 02 July 2007 - 11:33 PM

I do not know what happened to my first reply but I will try to rewrite it.

Well John, I do not think that all the noise was made for a leak from an oil canister. In regards to your argument about 5 or 50 ships... yes you are right. Today the plan is for 5 ships but tomorrow can be expanded not only to 50 but even to 100 ships per day. Why? Because the container poprt is only the beginning. After the port is made and since the container business will not be that great because nobody will bring containers to Timbaki to unload them and reload them again and again doubling costs...then...one smarty (and we all know who that might be)will say we could perhaps utilize the port to bring oil from nearby Libya and build a refinary here to serve with oil all Crete. Hey we could even use the port to export the oil all over also serve the rich man's oil canisters at Kaloi Limenes. Great then the local cement industry will say that come on guys I will pay you good money if I could use your port to export my cement to North Africa etc...etc.. Are you getting the picture John? Perhaps you will be one of the few ones who will handsomely benefit financiallly from this port if it finally goes ahead. In this case good luck!!The protest web site as you called it includes both local and retired foreigners who simply do see beyond what is served on the tray by the minister and who simply do not want to see their land becoming an industrial wasteland.

#38 Ton

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Posted 04 July 2007 - 10:33 AM

Good News!!!!! GOOD NEWS!!!!!! GOOD NEWS!!!!

Today Nafteboriki published an article saying that the port lucks the support of the European Commission which clearly states that the planned area of the port is a Protected area (around Geropotamos-Natura). The article concludes that the long studies needed to clear the port from the environmental impacts are acting now as a brake for its creation and there is a high degree of difficulty for its growth.

http://www.naftempor.../static/mrt.htm

#39 Ton

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Posted 04 July 2007 - 02:01 PM

GOOD NEWS!!!Further on to my previous message, today Cretetv reported that the container port investment in Timbaki is now seriously been considered to be moved to Kalamata or in Western Greece where transportation of the containers can be made by railway and trucks by having easy access to major roads network. All in all GOOD NEWS!!! GOOD NEWS

http://www.cretetv.gr/

#40 Papous

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Posted 04 July 2007 - 10:03 PM

Hi Ton,
Just finished reading the article - for as far as possible - and good news it is.. Seems to me that Crete is out of the 'danger zone'?
"?? ???????? ??? ?????? ????? ????"