Touring Knossos Yesterday....
Posted 04 June 2006 - 05:31 PM
Posted 04 June 2006 - 06:03 PM
However,last year we decided to go for it.
The best tips are to go in the afternoon,you miss most of the tour buses then.
Also,having read up and seen many tv programmes.we had a good understanding of what we were seeing,so instead of following the arrows ,the route the guides take,we went round the opposite way,sort of backwards if you like!
I suppose you could say,that instead of doing Knossos,we did "Sossonk"!
Posted 04 June 2006 - 09:04 PM
And before you do read some stuff about the excavations by Schliemann (who couldn't afford to buy the land) and Evans (who could). That way you prepare yourself against the disappointments Evans caused by rebuilding parts of the Queen's Megaron (yes the one with the copied dolphins frescoes).
Knossos is more or less a tourist trap. If you really want to "feel" where Minoan Crete was about go to Phaistos, Agia Triada (and visit Dinny ) on the way to Komos (beach) which used to be a Minoan harbour and where Europe is said to have been begotten by Zeus (in the shape of a bull).
Read Mary Renault's "The bull from the sea" and experience those anxious moments when Theseus slaughtered the Minotaur with the help of Ariadne and left the poor girl, no thanks, on the Island of Naxos.
"Crete's history is immense"
Posted 04 June 2006 - 09:28 PM
Posted 05 June 2006 - 12:01 AM
Must admit,the place that made us feel most that we had gone back to Minoan times,was Kato Zacros,seeing the "palace" then walking through a deserted "Valley of the dead" just before sunset.
Seriously spooky that!
Posted 05 June 2006 - 02:39 PM
I liked Zakros almost as much as Phaistos, but both not as much as Agia Triada. For some reason or another this place adds more to my imagination.
Anyhow, maybe you know of this site; digiserve
It shows all Minoan excavations with pics etc.
Posted 05 June 2006 - 03:47 PM
Posted 05 June 2006 - 08:22 PM
Saying that Knossos isn't very good sounds to me a little like popular myths that surface every now and then, such as 'Shakespeare was overrated' and so on.
Knossos is a fabulous place. Some of reconstruction may well be incorrect, but is certainly does leave an impression of somewhat greater accuracy than the other (also splendid) sites can and do. Unless you are a purist scientist then I would say that Knossos is an absolute must on the Cretan itenerary.
Just a small point: don't forget that they did use a lot a what we, basking in today's fashion' might call garish colours. What you see may not be far removed, whether you like it or not ...
Posted 05 June 2006 - 09:56 PM
To me personally, I don't need Evans resurrections. Imagination and knowing the facts as they were when excavated both by Schliemann and Evans (without his romantic views) add more reality to the site.
I'd advice you to read "The secret of Crete" by Hans Georg Wunderlich. Who, after careful research came up with the conclusion that it wasn't a palace of the living but of the death.
And that's got nothing to do with Shakespeare
Keep on digging
Posted 06 June 2006 - 11:41 AM
It's not the number of breaths you take, it's the moments that take your breath away.
Posted 28 September 2006 - 06:32 PM
Posted 28 September 2006 - 07:35 PM
There are a lot of logical arguments that can't be concluded like rubbish. Evans, inspired by the neo romantic epoque of the late 19th century and the upcoming of bathrooms ( for the aristocracy) was probably prejudiced when he founded his theory. Neither he came up with an acadamic prove.
Wunderlich used his geological knowledge and deductions plus the fact that the Minoans were in contact with Egypt (The "Keftiu" as the Cretans were called payed tribute to the Pharao) and this theocracy was famous for its world of the gods and the death, not of the living), the material of the "bathtub" (that can't stand water) and the fact it had'nt any drain (which could be very useful) and a myriad of references on the Linar A clay tablets to "honey", that the Egyptians also used for balming the corpses of the dead, etc. etc make it at least dubious if indeed we are dealing with a palace of the living.
Taken into consideration that the Minoans were deep into relegion, and thence for the world after, as were the Egyptians and actualy all civilistations in the Mediterranean basin, plea for a different, less fancy point of view
Posted 30 September 2006 - 11:36 AM
This doesn't get us very far. In the British Museum there is a "bath tub", the quotation marks are the BM's, which does have a hole low down on the narrow side. But does this mean it was a bath tub as Evans claimed? It is very small. At the Forgotten Empire exhibition at the BM last year there was a similar article which was found with a curled up body inside. A burial obviously. Also in the BM on the other side of the gallery there is a rectangular sarcophogus with drain holes in the base; why couldn't this be a bath tub as well?
My quest for a respectable critique of Wunderlich continues.
Posted 30 September 2006 - 11:58 AM
I can understand that, it's the quest for every scholar to reconsider established views.
Btw, did you read the book of Wunderlich?
Posted 30 September 2006 - 12:21 PM
By the way does any of our learned friends have any idea when the Elgin Marbles will be returned to Greece where it belongs?
Posted 30 September 2006 - 01:13 PM
Posted 30 September 2006 - 01:48 PM
You should read the whole story and don't come up with a dull argument
As you know, of course, there are a lot of precious pieces of art that have come into the hands of musea ( Hermitage e.g.) in a dubious way. Happily there are some governments that try to have them returned to the original owners (or heirs). In case you don't know, the Hermitage (e.g.) has a tremendoous lot of art that has been stolen by the Nazis from the former Jew population and thereafter by the Russian occupier.
But I agree, if that's what you mean, that this is not the right topic for this matter. So I made a new one about the Elgin Marbles in the Crete Gazette Forum.
And, as far as your opening line concerns, here is my other one ,and don't feel that fast grasped by your "marbles"
For people who want to react to the Elgin Marbles issue please go to the pertaining topic in the Crete Gazette Forum.That way we can safe this one for the Knossos argument
Wim, taking care of business
Posted 01 October 2006 - 06:21 PM
Yes I have read Wunderlich.
I've also read the Ann Brown (of the Ashmolean) account of Evans' work, she doesn't refer to Wunderlich but obviously doesn't accept at face value everything Evans said ; and the BM published book, "Minoans", by Lesley Fitton. It is also interesting but doesn't mention Wunderlich either. Both of these suggest that the Evans account of Knossos/Minoan palaces needed modifying and hint that they were more palaces of dead than the living.
The Evans biography, "Minotaur" by Macgillivray does mention Wunderlich and is puzzled why there was no reasoned rebuttal, it was published in 2000. I'm now waiting on the Crete Oxford Archaelogical Guide by Macdonald & Paton which is in preparation.
My quest for a reasoned critique continues.
Ps do you know what Coppens' credentials are?
Posted 01 October 2006 - 08:58 PM
This is the link to his bio
So both Ann Brown and Lesley Fitton seem to consent with Wunderlich about Knossos being a palace of the dead?! And that was Wunderlich's, no more no less, argument.
Let's keep on questing