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Containerharbour In Timbaki, Part 1


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#141 Pam

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Posted 05 October 2006 - 11:24 AM

John, I think the important thing is to read the first sentence as below:

The vision of the Minister of Mercantile Marine, Emmanuel Kefaloyiannis, for Timbaki in southern Crete. (From the Minister’s reply to Parliament in a answer to a question by Mrs Schinaraki MP).

In other words this is politician speak and can be as far removed from news as a fantasy (OK I'm cynical about politicians!) As you know, I am firmly against this, but can do little but provide limited support in signing petitions, which I agree is probably a futile exercise, but makes me feel better!

Also, John, both Ton and Dinny are residents in the area and so have the best feel of all of us on local opinion.

Ton and Dinny, all the best in the fight against the port.

Pam & Bob

#142 santo

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Posted 05 October 2006 - 01:38 PM

I agree Pam, it is a shame that most of the forum that are against this unfortunately are not in Crete on a permanent basis but it doesn't stop are support. :angry: :(

I thank members like Ton and Dinny who are in close proximity for keeping us updated.
:( :(
Santo

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#143 Assim

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Posted 05 October 2006 - 02:18 PM

it is a shame that most of the forum that are against this unfortunately are not in Crete



Isn't that part of the point of the discussion. The people that it effects most are those living in Crete who can use their local election votes to say how they feel. Where as the petition is full of people who only holiday in Crete and are only thinking of their 2 weeks in the sun, or the retirees who moved there for a quiet life without having to worry about working for a living and not the long term prosperity of the region.

An interesting article RiC
"Timbaki will be given the opportunity to become a large town over the next few years, in the next decade, on a par with the town of Rethymnon."
So the minister thinks that the port will bring opportunities to the area.

Now its up to the locals who live there.
"Nothing will be done without the agreement of local bodies. There is even talk in the area of a local referendum, which we have accepted."

#144 santo

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Posted 05 October 2006 - 02:35 PM

I have to say Assim that I do care about Crete and it's people even if i don't live there yet and assuming when i get there, if i don't work it's still an issue as i do not intend being stuck amongst "little britain" i want to integrate and therefore use local tradesmen as and when needed, if i wanted brits around me i'd stay here. :angry:

I have nothing against constructive developement but this port will kill tourism and a lot of local people depend on that.
:( :(
Santo

It's not the number of breaths you take, it's the moments that take your breath away.

#145 Ton

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Posted 05 October 2006 - 02:48 PM

Assim,
Most of the foreigners who object the port have holiday homes in the area or live there on a permanent basis. Also, who on earth would like to see Timbaki growing to a city like Rethymnon. Rethymnon is nice because of its old city architecture and history. Timbaki has neither of those two features. It will become at its best a modern MacDonald's industrial dump. Right now the government has trouble with deciding the management of Greek ports. Should the management stay in Greek hands or given to foreign interests like the Chinese? The Chinese do not want to use Timbaki. They like the ports of Thessaloniki and Pireaus. In the mean time European shipping firms would like to also establish long term agreements with the Greeks for the ports. The whole thing in other words in in a big f...g mess. The government is getting in more deep shit because the shipowners in Greece are pushing them to cooperate with the Chinese because of obvious reasons. In my view the wrong doing of the government is that they have not clearly designated the industrial and touristic zones in Greece. That means that Greece is still a 3d world country since you might build a nice house with a view to the sea and a nice morning you see a power plant erected next to you. Only archeological areas are protected in Greece.

#146 Dinny

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Posted 05 October 2006 - 07:13 PM

OK, has anybody got a hidden Greak statue at home in the closet? I will personally see to that it is hidden under something like half meter of sand on the beach in question. Will that do it, Ton?

#147 Wim

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Posted 05 October 2006 - 09:28 PM

Yeah right, my statue has just "come out of the closet" :(

And how about that submerged Minoan harbour at Komos Beach that used to provide Triada and Phaistos?
If you stick a shovel in the earth in that area in the morning, you'll find yourself in jail by noon.

Dig,dug,dug, :angry:
True is that adage: "He who yields to rule by wooden heads, becomes himself a fool."

#148 Retired in Crete

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Posted 06 October 2006 - 12:06 AM

I am begining to wonder if some of the posters here know what they want?

Firstly they say that the container port will provide no jobs for the locals so they don't want it. When told that it will produce a town the size of Rethymno (with all the jobs that a town of this size would entail) they don't want this either! What do they want then? It would seem to me that they expect a genuine 17th century Greek town to be recreated so that it "fits in" with their idea of what Crete should be like. ie stuck in the past with no realistic future, but a nice picture postcard to send "home" when they visit.

This is the one opportunity for the Cretans to secure their and their childrens future, and what a future it could be! Rarely does anyone get the chance to design a town from scratch, the new town could be whatever you want it to be, but it certainly would be a signpost to the future prosperity of the Greek nation.

I do not trust politicians either, but, at last, the government have realised that the future for the area does not lie under hectares of old polythene sheeting covering an increasingly barren soil, and are trying to drag Crete into the 21st century.

.............and no, I will not sign the petition as I think that the Cretans deserve a future!

John
Cornwall - Great at any time of the year.

#149 Ton

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Posted 06 October 2006 - 10:19 AM

Bravo John!!No problem. We respect your views and never mind the petition...after all we live in Democracy and if what the minister says is true the people will vote on the issue and the majority will win nevermind the result.
But I think Dinny's idea with the statue is a good one.
By the way Wim they can not touch Komos. It's protected.

#150 santo

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Posted 06 October 2006 - 10:57 AM

We all know what you want RIC, even if some members are unsure ??? perhaps it's because they don't understand how good or badly it will affect the area. :angry:

I don't think for one minute the Cretans are trying to stay in the past but have clear views about what they feel is progress...........If any one knows ports around the world especially container ones there generally rundown areas, I used to live in Essex not far from Tilbury docks and I have to say (and no i'm not a snob ) but what a s***h**e area full of degenerates and louts :( :( and in fact for most people in the Thurrock borough was where they stuck the problem familes in council housing.

some progress eh !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and I'll say no more on the subject John.

:(
Santo

It's not the number of breaths you take, it's the moments that take your breath away.

#151 Wim

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Posted 06 October 2006 - 11:01 AM

Hi Ton,

Seems you misunderstood my message.
What I wrote, in a sort of ironic way, means,; they should not start this harbour project because of this Minoan submerged harbour near Komos (which is a protected area, hence the ending up in jail etc.) since there has not been sufficient research in this area. And as you know Komos will be part of this plan.

Which brings us to our friend John who does not seem to have read this article which has been partly linked in this topic as well. And if you did John, including the Timbaki protest, and understand the impact this plan will have for the future of the south, with almost none jobs for the locals, then I don't agree with Ton about this democracy thing from which Aristotle said that its the less worse choice men can make for a political system. :D :angry:

And as you see Aristotle was right. Democracy seems to be a truly Greek invention.
I think we'll have to wait, sign our petitions, find out the truth and abide what comes of it.

P.S.
I have been told, by very well informed people high up in the Greek Government, that they are considering planning a container transit harbour on Spinalonga :( :( :(
True is that adage: "He who yields to rule by wooden heads, becomes himself a fool."

#152 Ton

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Posted 06 October 2006 - 11:37 AM

I got u Wim on your first comment about Komos. But u see Komos is relatively far from the area of Timbaki where they want to fix the port. The official archeological grounds of Komos extend only to approximately 1 km radius from the excavated ruins. As far for your comment to John about the linked article with the photos and ...and...and...I think that's exactly what John finds it's gonna be good for the future of Crete!!!Therefore you can not change his mind based on this article. We need some cut and paste pictures of the gipsy grounds by Heraklion airport to be added to complete the scenery.

#153 Wim

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Posted 08 October 2006 - 01:32 PM

O.K. Ton, gotcha,

1. The beautiful surroundings of Kazantzakis Airport.(Bet he's turning around in his grave)
2. How a container harbour looks like. (Rotterdam, and this one is far away from any populated area; length = 2 .8 kms and width 1.1 km)
To give you an impression. The length of the Timbákion NATO airstrip = 2.72 km starting from the sea towards Agia Triada, which lays on a distance from 1.2. km from the end of the strip.

The distance from the strip to Kalamaki is 3.83 kms. That means that if they're gonna build this harbour in the length of the coast, using the same measurements as the one in Rotterdam, than the end of it would be only a 1000 meters away from Kalamaki. !!!, 2.40 kms from Pitsidia ( hello Dinny how are you?) and 4.2 kms from Matala. Good morning Matala, may I have your votes please???

Have a nice day B)



1. ...........................2.

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True is that adage: "He who yields to rule by wooden heads, becomes himself a fool."

#154 Ton

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Posted 10 October 2006 - 11:39 AM

Can this be good news????

For the first time the Minister Kefalogyannis during his discussions with the press about the port investments in Greece does not make reference to the port of Tymbaki with its name but he refers to as ' a new port in Crete'. Can it be that he realizes that trying to push Tymbaki to the local communities might fire back as boomerang to his future plans?
The same article indicates that very soon the ministry will announce all the new developments about the port investments in Greece.

#155 santo

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Posted 10 October 2006 - 12:28 PM

It could be good news Ton thanks for keeping us informed.
B) B)
Santo

It's not the number of breaths you take, it's the moments that take your breath away.

#156 Ton

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Posted 19 October 2006 - 07:50 PM

According to an article in the Greek express.gr from today...all port investments by foreign sharks are in limbo because the Greek Government is delaying to define the rules of the game in regards to the management of the Greek ports. The same news paper reported recently that the ports of Lavrion, Volos and Alexandropolis are now in focus by foreign container and general cargo shipping operators.

#157 cjmeyer

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Posted 20 October 2006 - 02:04 PM

Hi,
I am new here, following the discussion..and I am happy that there are not only German forums, where this issue are discussed.
I just came back from Southern crete and after the election of last Sunday, it seems that the things will change.
In Timbaki a new mayor is elected, who is strongly against the project, also in Agia Galini and Moires. This shows clearly that the mayority of the people are against this huge project.

Well, we have to see, what will be the next steps ageinst this harbour.

Here some other links:

http://www.agia-gali...e=timbakihorror
http://www.no-contai...-in-timbaki.net

Best regards CJMeyer

#158 Ton

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Posted 30 October 2006 - 04:06 PM

The latest report from a recent article in Ethnos is that the Chinese clearly are targeting now the ports of Pireaus and Thessaloniki for their container shipments. There is no word about Timbaki.
Mr Alogoskoufis has now be told face to face by the Chinese of their true plans of i.e that they never had layed their eyes in Timbaki as was previously had let to be believed by Kefalogiannis. Kefalogiannis has recently lost big in the Municipal elections in Messara and many contribute his losses because of his persistance in making the container port in Timbaki.

#159 Pam

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Posted 30 October 2006 - 05:21 PM

Sounds promising - is it time to break out the champagne, or at least put it on ice?

#160 Ton

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Posted 30 October 2006 - 05:37 PM

Not yet Pam...just not yet!!! but perhaps we can drink some Raki!!!
Greetings to Bob.