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Containerharbour In Timbaki, Part 1


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#101 DaveW.

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Posted 17 September 2006 - 03:37 PM

I don't know if I am the 'forum member' referred to here regarding tomatoes and I am not offended by any comments that have been posted.
I am however annoyed that I have possibly been described as being a fickle tourist who has little thought for the country I visit and is only concerned about the price of fags, beer and enjoys fish 'n chips.
Nothing that I have ever posted could lead anyone to make such an assumption.
My reference to tomatoes was in context of the wider agricultural economy of the island, this part especially. I am sorry that it was not read in this context.
As I have stated in previous topics my worst nightmare is that the many people who are retiring to the island from northern Europe will spoil the culture/language of the island by keeping to their own little social circles with little attempt, or no attempt, for learning the language of the country which they have adopted. This has been regularly commented on regarding the Drapanos Peninsula. They are destroying the exact thing that they were looking for. Or have they? Is it only that they seek the weather? Would they be happy in any other warm climate?
Fish 'n chip shops and British butchers shops? No, thank you very much.
I accept that not all of us have the same opinions but please let us respect these views, even if we disagree, and not lower ourselves on this forum to the mindless rantings/gibberish seen on some of some of the others.
End of story..I'm happy now I've had my say.....next please.
If you look like your passport picture....you probably need the holiday!

#102 Ton

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Posted 17 September 2006 - 06:07 PM

Guys just relax!! Will u? John is entitled to his views and he thinks that the port will help in the future the Cretan economy. May be yes may be not. Most of us in this forum think NOT. Well, this is Democracy everyone can express his/her ideas. Dave by the way Greeks have preserved their language for a few thousands of years and in recent history managed to preserve their religion and culture from the Turkish occupation of 400 years!!! I don't think that they will be eroded by few thousands of open minded and progressive Europeans like you and other members of this forum even if some of them like to eat fish and chips out of a news paper and like to watch East Enders on TV. lol!! lol!!

#103 Wim

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Posted 17 September 2006 - 06:59 PM

Auch die Frankfurter Zeitung hat sich in den Sache vertieft.

And this is a letter to the Hon. Minister of Destruction

Translation upon request B)

I know, I'd stop answering to this topic.
But, it's in the blood :D
True is that adage: "He who yields to rule by wooden heads, becomes himself a fool."

#104 Retired in Crete

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Posted 17 September 2006 - 07:47 PM

DaveW

Did you read the thread I started "Why does no one care" (about what the Brits are doing to North West Crete)? I share your concerns.

I also believe that Crete cannot stay locked in the past as a purely tourist attraction. Behind many showrooms is a workshop. I believe that Crete needs a workshop so that the people will continue to prosper still further when the tourist numbers fall.

John

PS I did not intend to lump you in with the fish and chip brigade but now I can see how you got that impression. I am sorry - again
Cornwall - Great at any time of the year.

#105 Wim

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Posted 17 September 2006 - 08:01 PM

As much as these translations are concerned, I forgot that we Europeans speak at least 3 foreign languages..

So I don't need to bother B)
True is that adage: "He who yields to rule by wooden heads, becomes himself a fool."

#106 DaveW.

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Posted 18 September 2006 - 12:14 AM

Thanks John...appreciated. I can see where you are coming from but maybe we are heading in the same diection but on different roads. B)
Dave
If you look like your passport picture....you probably need the holiday!

#107 Ton

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Posted 18 September 2006 - 11:47 AM

This article appeared today in the Greek newspaper 'Ethnos'. It is important for two reasons.

1. Describes that more and more people are getting organized against the construction of this port in Timbaki.
2. The signing of the memorandum of understanding with the Koreans does not mean at the same time that the port will be constructed.


Ανεπιθύμητα στο Τυμπάκι τα κορεατικά κοντέινερ
«E» 9/9


Απειλούν ότι «θα γίνει της Kορέας» οι φορείς του Tυμπακίου στη Nότια Kρήτη, εάν, όπως λένε, «περάσουν» χωρίς τη λαϊκή συναίνεση ή «κρύβουν παγίδες» οι κυβερνητικοί σχεδιασμοί για τη λειτουργία στην περιοχή λιμανιού αμιγώς βιομηχανικού-διαμετακομιστικού κέντρου, το οποίο φοβούνται ότι θα «δυναμιτίσει» την τουριστική και αγροτική ανάπτυξη της ευρύτερης περιοχής της Mεσσαράς.

Oι αντιδράσεις ξέσπασαν στην περιοχή και παίρνουν καθημερινά διαστάσεις, εντείνοντας το προεκλογικό κλίμα, μετά την υπογραφή του μνημονίου συνεργασίας για το λιμάνι του Tυμπακίου μεταξύ Eλλάδας και Kορέας στις αρχές της εβδομάδας.

Φορείς και κάτοικοι της περιοχής, που δηλώνουν άγνοια για το τι σχεδιάζεται στην περιοχή τους, απευθύνονται προσωπικά στον πρωθυπουργό αλλά και στον συμπατριώτη τους υπουργό Eμπορικής Nαυτιλίας, από τους οποίους ζητούν άμεση και επαρκή ενημέρωση.

Σε έκτακτη σύσκεψη στο Tυμπάκι οι εκπρόσωποι της τοπικής αυτοδιοίκησης, των παραγωγικών τάξεων, του τουρισμού, του πολιτισμού αλλά και οικολογικών οργανώσεων εξέφρασαν την αποφασιστικότητα να αντιδράσουν δυναμικά στα όποια σχέδια βιομηχανικών επενδύσεων «μαμούθ», που θα διαταράξουν το οικοσύστημα και την ισόρροπη ανάπτυξη της περιοχής.

«Αποφασίζουν χωρίς εμάς»

«Θέλουμε να έχουμε γνώση και λόγο για το τι σχεδιάζεται στην περιοχή μας. Δεν ανεχόμαστε άλλοι να αποφασίζουν για εμάς, χωρίς εμάς» δήλωσε ο εκπρόσωπος της επιτροπής φορέων του Tυμπακίου Θανάσης Kτιστάκης.

Στην ίδια σύσκεψη οι φορείς τάχθηκαν κατά της δημιουργίας βιομηχανικού διαμετακομιστικού κέντρου, ενώ αποφασίστηκε η δημιουργία μιας διευρυμένης επιτροπής με τη συμμετοχή των όμορων δήμων (Mοιρών, Γόρτυνας, Kόφινα, Aστερουσίων, Aρκαλοχωρίου του Nομού Hρακλείου και Λάμπης, Kουρητών και Φοίνικα του Nομού Pεθύμνης), ώστε να υπάρξει ένα ευρύτερος προβληματισμός και να κατατεθούν προτάσεις για το αναπτυξιακό μέλλον της περιοχής.

«Hδη έχει δημιουργηθεί κλίμα ανασφάλειας και έχουν σταματήσει επενδύσεις σε τουρισμό, γεωργία...» επισημαίνει ο Θ. Kτιστάκης, προσθέτοντας ότι η ενδεχόμενη λειτουργία βιομηχανικού-διαμετακομιστικού κέντρου στο Tυμπάκι θα σημάνει την υποβάθμιση-καταστροφή του περιβάλλοντος της ευρύτερης περιοχής, που έχει τουριστική-αγροτική ανάπτυξη.

«Δεν θα αφήσουμε την περιοχή μας να μετατραπεί σε χαβούζα των ξένων. Nα καταστραφεί το περιβάλλον και να θαφτεί ο τουρισμός, η γεωργία, ο πολιτισμός» τόνισε ο πρόεδρος της Eνωσης Γεωργικών Συνεταιρισμών Mεσσαράς Γιώργος Aσκοξυλάκης.

Oι οικολογικές οργανώσεις της περιοχής, από την επομένη της υπογραφής του μνημονίου, έχουν ξεκινήσει εκστρατεία κατά της δημιουργίας του βιομηχανικού-διαμετακομιστικού κέντρου, όπως το ονομάζουν.

Tην αντίδραση ξεκίνησε πρώτη η Oικολογική Παρέμβαση Hρακλείου, που διακινεί στο διαδίκτυο σχετικό κείμενο το οποίο υπογράφεται από φορείς και πολίτες. H ίδια οργάνωση παράλληλα έστειλε επιστολή στον πρωθυπουργό ζητώντας του να παρέμβει ώστε να «μην καταστραφεί η περιοχή».

Δύο αρχαιολόγοι, η Mαρία Kουτρουμπάκη και ο Iωσήφ Σω, με ανοιχτή επιστολή τους στον πρωθυπουργό ζητούν να ακυρωθεί η επένδυση- μαμούθ, προς όφελος του περιβάλλοντος και του πολιτισμού. H περιοχή εξάλλου παρουσιάζει τεράστιο αρχαιολογικό ενδιαφέρον, αφού εκεί βρίσκεται το παλάτι της Φαιστού, σε κοντινή απόσταση η αρχαία Γόρτυνα, ενώ στην παραλιακή θέση Kομός (επίνειο της Φαιστού) εξελίσσονται εδώ και χρόνια ανασκαφές.

Μιχ. Μαρκομιχελάκης Δήμαρχος Τυμπακίου: Επιστολή στον Κεφαλογιάννη

O δήμαρχος του Tυμπακίου, με επείγουσα επιστολή του προς τον υπουργό Eμπορικής Nαυτιλίας Mανόλη Kεφαλογιάννη, επισημαίνει: «Θεωρούμε ότι ο Δήμος και οι δημότες του έχουν τον πρώτο λόγο για τα όσα σχεδιάζονται στα διοικητικά του όρια και σας γνωρίζουμε ότι κανένας σχεδιασμός δεν θα γίνει ερήμην μας χωρίς τη σύμφωνη γνώμη μας και χωρίς τη συμμετοχή μας, είτε στον φορέα διαχείρισης είτε στα όποια οικονομικά οφέλη πιθανόν προκύψουν».

Νίκος Αντωνακάκης Αντιπρόεδρος Οργανισμού Λιμένος Ηρακλείου: Μεγάλη ευκαιρία και έργο ζωής

H διαμετακόμιση 1 εκατομμυρίου κοντέινερ τον χρόνο είναι στους σχεδιασμούς ανάπτυξης του εμπορικού λιμανιού στο Tυμπάκι. Aυτό αναφέρει στο «Eθνος της Kυριακής» ο κ. Nίκος Aντωνακάκης, επισημαίνοντας ότι «τώρα είναι η μεγάλη ευκαιρία». O κ. Aντωνακάκης, απαντώντας στις διαμαρτυρίες των φορέων Tυμπακίου, είπε ότι «η υπογραφή του μνημονίου δεν σημαίνει ταυτόχρονα και κατασκευή» .

#108 Wim

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Posted 18 September 2006 - 01:20 PM

Haha Ton,

This is fun. I know we Europeans speak al least 3 foreign languages :D but alas, I don't speak Greek (am learning though).

Could you please translate :D

Wim "φοιτητής" B)
True is that adage: "He who yields to rule by wooden heads, becomes himself a fool."

#109 Ton

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Posted 18 September 2006 - 02:38 PM

Gia sou Wim/fetetis,

The article basically outlines the views of various groups of people who are against the port construction. I don't want to go thru the full article since it doesn't have any real news. The conclusion of the article however is that several groups in Crete are joining forces against the port construction and they'r now threatening that will be big trouble if the government proceeds without a public vote on the issue. Also they demand that the minister of destruction communicates properly his real intensions so they can decide if this project will benefit the area or not.

#110 Assim

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Posted 18 September 2006 - 03:52 PM

I'm not sure if it has been mentioned here, I may of missed it the thread has got so long B)

But I was wondering about the effect of the container port on the turtles that breed on the beaches in the area. The obvious conclusion is that they will lose their habitat and this isn't a good thing.

So I embarked on some research to see what type of turtles nested in the area and how endangered they are. This research throws up some interesting things, mainly the fact that tourism, which is mentioned when we talk about the Timbaki port, has a degenerate effect on the turtle populous too.

Beach erosion due to uncontrolled over-development, and pollution due to lack of infrastructure to cope with these numbers of people (up to over 3 times Crete’s own population a year) along with the fact that sea turtles are still killed by fishermen and caught in nets, has led to dwindling numbers of sea turtle nests on Crete. Anything left on the beach at night may obstruct a nesting turtle or trap a hatchling on its way to the sea, and lights both distract mother and disorientate hatchlings, which are drawn towards the brightest light (which used to be the moon and stars reflecting in the sea, but is now more likely to be hotels and road lights). Without intervention, these hatchlings will never find their way to the sea and will die of dehydration and exhaustion when the sun comes up in the morning.



I realise that the port will effect tourism, but like the port, tourism is effecting the whole ecology of Crete to its detriment.

Tourism has the effect of killing the very thing it thrives on. The building of hotels and apartments to cater for the ever growing number of summer visitors etc.

The conclusion I have come to is that Crete needs to diversify, otherwise it ends up like the costa del anywhere in Spain, a spent tourist destination. Both the container port and the tourism will be the dimise of Crete. The question is, which one is better for our animal cousins. The constant abuse of laws regarding building in Greece, means there is no control over the tourist related buildings and industry. Could it be that by killing tourism, we can in turn protect the wildlife and heritage of the island?

I know you may argue that a port, with its pollution and potential shipping accidents will endanger the wildlife, but done correctly it could be as environmetally friendly, or better, than the hotels and apartments along the coast, that spew their waste into the sea, and the rubbish the tourist leave on the beaches.

hmmm I started off trying to persuade myself that the port is a bad idea and have gone full circle.
just one source I used here. The rest are all variations of the same text

#111 Wim

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Posted 18 September 2006 - 06:40 PM

Hi Assim,

Yes it has been mentioned before by me, and I would advise you to read the whole topic.

I agree with you that tourisme at the scale as it has developed itself in the North, say roughly from the Gulf of Mirambelo up to the Gulf of Hania has'nt influenced nature and environment in a positive way. It did make the rich wealthy though.....but you can't compare it to the impact this container harbour will have to the nature of the area of Tymbaki and the infrastructure . I don't know if you have been to that area of Crete, but if you did you'd understand what I mean. That's what I'd call a detriment.

If this Minister of Destroyment really wants his harbour then I would advise him to show some courage and come up with the real data.....and if he'd had balls at all and an eye for the future he'd made an artificial island far enough to the south where nobody can see it. The Japanese did so with their new Kansai Airport.

Tourisme can certainly become less destructive if it would be handled as a serious source of income which means that you have to plan it's future instead of letting things happen without a real master plan, lead by a goverment that does'nt seem to care, and developers that go for the fast buck.

Keep a keen eye :)
True is that adage: "He who yields to rule by wooden heads, becomes himself a fool."

#112 Ton

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Posted 18 September 2006 - 07:55 PM

Wim u r very correct in your remarks. Unfortunatelly the minister of destruction seems to have an eye only in his political agenda. He doesn't understand that he betrays his own land and people by serving the interests of a very few who don't give a sh... for destroying one of the very few unspoiled places on earth. As for a Master Plan? This is something the Greeks are learning recently from Microsoft Project Schedule. It took several painful years until the cementopolis Athens got a Metro. By the way this would have been not possible without the recent Olympics. And look the city of Heraklion what a desaster area is. Fortunatelly a new mayor and some wise people started finally doing something there. We even have some palm trees planted close to the Olympic Stadium. There are no master plans except endless political discussions. But we have plenty of garbage on the streets and cats everywhere. So now they even want to destroy the south by building a port and degrading the area to an industrial dump. The minister of destruction should better worry about building a garbage processor plant so we don't look like a third world country by burning the garbage in fields close to populated villages and creating additional pollution and healt hazards. For Christ shake where are the E.U inspectors? I think they take them to Elounda resort during the night (like they did with the arab princes recent visit) so they don't see the mess and dont come back again, and show them only what they want to show them. The minister of destruction should also talk to his friends in the Greek parliament about the long lines at Heraklion airport. Recently one of their lungage X reay security maschines broke and the poor employees had to suffer the wrath of few hundreds of tourists who had to wait hours to pass through. And more and more.... and still they invite Koreans, Chinese and Arabs for investment discussions by selling to them the only good things left in South Crete i.e the clean sea, clean air (that is when the wind doesn't blow from Kalamaki bringing around the smell of burning garbage) and the trust of the people who elected them in the first place.

#113 Retired in Crete

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Posted 20 September 2006 - 12:53 AM

Has the decline of the tourist industry started?

http://www.dailymail...in_page_id=1770

I only asked the question.

John
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#114 Henry Hooray

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Posted 20 September 2006 - 04:41 AM

Re. Retired's reference to the article in the Daily Mail (quote):

There are holidays in September on the Greek island of Rhodes for 85 and Kavos in Corfu for 124 per person.



There are of course wonderful parts of Rhodes. However, Kavos is the original Malia and Faliraki put together in one place. Not a place that all the wild horses of the Apocalypse could drag me to :)

Henry.

#115 Wim

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Posted 20 September 2006 - 01:24 PM

Travel industry expert, Jeremy Skidmore, said the country is seeing the slow death of the traditional package holiday.

"We are seeing a sea-change in consumer behaviour. The bottom line is that people are turning their backs on package holidays and doing their own thing," he said.

"It's no exaggeration to say that the travel industry is unravelling before our eyes. The package holiday, once a desirable goal, is now something that millions of people are turning their backs on."

He said travellers are now far more independent and no longer value the hand-holding offered by a package holiday, including reps and organised excursions.


This quote from the Daily Mail might as well be quoted from Dutch, German and French etc. newspapers.
I'll try to elucidate the bold text.

This is in my opinion a "good/bad" development as it will raise the demand for "quality" not "quantity", and individualism. It is again a reason for the Greek Ministry of Tourism to urge with planning their future as I mentioned in former topics and in the Crete Gazette. Sitting back and enjoying the present is not a way to secure the future. And you need not be a soothsayer to predict where that will lead to.

I see it merely as a challenge for the Government to become "creative" and sell their "product" as it is and was in the past; a class(ical) travel destination where Europe and our "civilisation" was born.
Mass tourism has certainly brought the necessary "drachma" but was this "drachma" also spent to invest in the future, thence increasing the possibility to be prepared for changes like this?

Has it enhanced the "quality"

I recall the advertisements where Crete was promoted as the "Island of the Gods" like eg. Luxor was as the birth place of "monotheism", thence referring to their rich culture and history. My conclusion is that this sort of "historical quality" is the only characteristic that'll help survive and secure the future of Crete/Greece.
In combination with the healthy "cuisine" and climate, the non destroyed parts of the island, the plethora of places to "overnight" and the still present hospitality, it has all the ingredients for people who want to "travel".

The package holidays with the only intention to enjoy as much beer, beach and sunburned bodies as possible is old. Individualism propels to take over and is "hot" :) B)

Be/get individual :lol:
True is that adage: "He who yields to rule by wooden heads, becomes himself a fool."

#116 Assim

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Posted 20 September 2006 - 03:24 PM

Theres a couple of articles in Kathimerini today about tourism that may be of interest.

Adjust or straggle behind your competitors, warns top tourism professional in Athens

Variety, quality service and better infrastructure seen as the keys to increased tourism

#117 Ton

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Posted 20 September 2006 - 04:52 PM

While the local people in Messara are trying to object the industrial monster port plans of Kefalogiannis, the minister is showing Arab investors in Corfu areas where they can build nice Marinas for super-lux yachts and boats. Why the minister is not thinking similarly for his own people in Timbaki? Perhaps in his eyes Messara/Timbaki doesn't deserve any better!!!What a pity!!

#118 Wim

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Posted 20 September 2006 - 06:25 PM

Not only a pity Ton;
Do you know of the Belgian investor who is planning an 18 hole golf course south of Matala near the red beach area? Complete with all the amenities that comes with it? It seems he already bought land and is willing to buy more.
I'm afraid that with this container harbour as a neighbour he'll probably move to Corfu... :lol: too.
Do you think they have heard of "communicating" up there in Athens?.

Thank you Assim for the interesting Ekathimerini articles :)
I hope it means that they are seriously interested in the future.

Wim B)
True is that adage: "He who yields to rule by wooden heads, becomes himself a fool."

#119 Retired in Crete

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Posted 20 September 2006 - 06:48 PM

I have already posted that the travel companies have too much power over the Greek economy and said that I feared for the future.

Since reading Assim's links I fear no longer. I am now plain terrified!

Tui controls 30% of the Greek tourist market and are calling for changes. If someone in an office in Germany decides he/she can wait no longer and "pulls the plug" on Greece the consequencies will be disasterous.

Greece and Crete must end their reliance on tourism and take control of their own destiny. Saving the beaches of the south coast will be futile if there are no tourists.

John

PS I know that I said I would make no more posts on this subject but, as Wim says "it is in the heart"
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#120 Ton

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Posted 21 September 2006 - 01:35 AM

1. Answering Wim's question first, the Belgians as far as I know (Greenwell Company from Belgium) they only want to lease the land close to Matala for a number of years. The investment will include houses and a golf area. Wim if you type in Google 'Matala Golf Greenwell' you will find some interesting articles on the subject. As I have mentioned before this type of investment is more favourable to the area than the industrial port. 2. In response to John's comments.... South Crete does not depend fortunatelly on massive German and English tourist offices. South Crete is nice because most people who are visiting are booking abroad their flights only. They find rooms in villages, come via Italy with a car and camp or live in their own houses. They contribute directly to the local economy with their foreign currency. Thus most of their money is absorbed in Crete. Contrary to that the north depends on the bookings from tourist offices from overseas. The people coming to Heraklion or Hania are taken by buses to their Hotels and they spend their package holidays between the Hotel swimming pool and the local bars. I feel sorry for this type of tourists since they are looking forwards all year to escape the grey climate of their countries and the lousy/miserable office to only come to Crete because they saw a cheap advert in a newspaper flyer. Yes I agree tourist offices have power and this is good for competition. If Greece wants to stay in the tourist business they have to offer better value for money with good infrastructure, clean beaches, cheap and descent quality food, health facilities, and hospitality. The reason tourists return to Greece right now is because it is still relatively cheap. It offers no good infrastructure, it is dirty, no health facilities like in northern Europe but superb hospitality from the locals. Corruption is also an anathema to the country. The potential for Greece to be the star of South Europe is there but ministers like the one we have dealing with this port shows me that the government is still far from its targets they promissed to the voters.