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Containerharbour In Timbaki, Part 1


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#21 Michael.at

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Posted 24 January 2006 - 11:28 PM

Dear all,
as I have bought a small house in Klima (north of Tymbaki) I am following the rumors about the container harbour from the begining.
And from that time on I believe it is totally uneconomic to build a big harbour there. All big container harbours I know provide further transport by ship (river), train and truck to industrial areas and agglomerations. I don't find this on the whole island of Crete. Even if the total import and export of goods (has someone data about it?) will be shiped at one port it will be cheaper to do it in the north of Crete where the big harbours already are.
A variation of the rumor is to build a port only for tranfering containers from large ships (problems to pass the Bosporus?) to smaller vessels. To do that on an island doesn't make economic sense either.
So I think Thessaloniki (routs to the Balkans and Black Sea) and Piraeus will be lucky to expand their harbour capacity as mentioned above.
Some facts about the ports of Gioia Tauro (Italy, just north of the Strait of Messina) and Algeciras (Spain, close to Gibraltar).

#22 Ton

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Posted 25 January 2006 - 11:11 AM

Thanks, Yannis! Always ready with the right info! :-)
I will now compose a long memo for mr. Karamanlis, highlighting views that might never have occurred to him. I'm SURE he will change his mind after that!

Dinny, according to the Patris news paper from today it looks like the government is trying to push the ports of Pireaus and Thessaloniki to be the ones which become modernised and enlarged somehow to accommodate the big influx of Chinese containers. However there are some individuals who obviously do not care about the environment and luck the vision of the prime minister Kostas Karamanlis, that certain areas in Greece are designated/classified as touristic and some areas are classified as industrial. Crete is a touristic island and although a port in Timbaki might bring some jobs locally the overall port project at Timbaki will neither serve the long term interests of Greece nor the interests of the Chinese who want to have easy access to the Balcans.

#23 Julie

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Posted 25 January 2006 - 07:48 PM

Thanks, Yannis! Always ready with the right info! :-)
I will now compose a long memo for mr. Karamanlis, highlighting views that might never have occurred to him. I'm SURE he will change his mind after that!



Dinny, it might be an idea to post your letter to Mr K here, so that anyone who wants to write to him can use your research into the anti-arguments (which I'm sure will be thorough) as a crib.

#24 Ton

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Posted 26 January 2006 - 06:55 PM

Dinny, it might be an idea to post your letter to Mr K here, so that anyone who wants to write to him can use your research into the anti-arguments (which I'm sure will be thorough) as a crib.

For those who understand Greek it seems that it is Mr. Kefalogiannis afterall whose responsible for the mess according to the news paper VIMA. He is the guy who is pushing the Chinese to build the new port in Timbaki. However it doesnt make anysense and it is doomed to fail. All complains therefore send them to him.

From tovima news paper :
H απραξία όμως που καταγράφεται στον Σταθμό Υποδοχής Εμπορευματοκιβωτίων, όπως λένε παράγοντες της λιμενικής αγοράς, είναι αποτέλεσμα της αλλοπρόσαλλης πολιτικής του κ. Κεφαλογιάννη στον τομέα, η οποία φοβίζει τόσο τις εταιρείες τακτικών διά θαλάσσης μεταφορών που θα επιθυμούσαν να έλθουν στο επίνειο όσο και αυτές που ήδη βρίσκονται στον Πειραιά, οι οποίες μειώνουν συνεχώς τα φορτία που διακινούν μέσω του λιμένα.

Την ίδια ώρα ο κ. Κεφαλογιάννης δεν επιθυμεί να ικανοποιήσει το αίτημα της China Shipping για τη χρήση του λιμένα Πειραιά ως διαμετακομιστικού κέντρου, προσδοκώντας ότι τελικά θα καταφέρει να πείσει τους Κινέζους να χρησιμοποιήσουν αντί του Πειραιά το Τυμπάκι που βρίσκεται στην εκλογική του περιφέρεια.

Αλλά και εδώ επικρατεί ένα σχετικό χάος καθώς ο μεν κ. Κεφαλογιάννη υποστηρίζει, ιδιαίτερα στην εκλογική του περιφέρεια, ότι οι Κινέζοι είναι αυτοί που θα επενδύσουν για τη δημιουργία αυτού του τέρμιναλ, οι δε Κινέζοι περιμένουν από την ελληνική κυβέρνηση να κατασκευάσει αυτό τον σταθμό και να τους τον παραχωρήσει.

Σε κάθε περίπτωση, οι Κινέζοι επιθυμούν διακαώς να εγκαταστήσουν στην Ελλάδα ένα κέντρο διανομής φορτίων που θα καλύπτει όλα τα Βαλκάνια και υπάρχει ο κίνδυνος να χαθεί αυτή η ευκαιρία εξαιτίας της εμμονής του κ. Κεφαλογιάννη να τους προτείνει ανεδαφικές λύσεις, όπως το Τυμπάκι, χωρίς να εξετάζει άλλα εναλλακτικά σενάρια, όπως η Θεσσαλονίκη, ο Βόλος ή ακόμη και η Αλεξανδρούπολη.

#25 yannis_s

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Posted 26 January 2006 - 10:14 PM

Ton,
your postings are interesting but I am sure post people here would appreciate it if you could spend a few minutes and translate the Greek texts before you post them on the forum. It looks like you speak both languages fluently, so that won't be a problem for you.
This is just a friendly request...
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#26 Ton

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Posted 27 January 2006 - 12:18 AM

Ton,
your postings are interesting but I am sure post people here would appreciate it if you could spend a few minutes and translate the Greek texts before you post them on the forum. It looks like you speak both languages fluently, so that won't be a problem for you.
This is just a friendly request...

:blink: Yo! that would be OK Yannis if it's a small article but if it's a lengthy one??.. then.. it is more constructive to give the main outcome of the article in a few lines as I have done above. Anyway I thought that this site is followed by both Greek and other than Greek individuals. Yannis thank you for your suggestion and your solid support and coaching of this site. :P If you have heard any news about the Belgian Project at the Red Beach site close to Matala I would appreciate a feedback. I know this might not be the right spot in the forum list since its dealing with the Timbaki containers, but u can advise where to find the latest news (if any!).
Cheers

#27 Henry Hooray

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Posted 27 January 2006 - 11:52 AM

Michael.at wrote:

And from that time on I believe it is totally uneconomic to build a big harbour there.


I am not sure the economics are necessarily the driving force.

There is a nice new harbour (nothing on the same scale, mind) down in Paleochora, and as far as I can tell it is used by a few fishings boats, a couple of tour boats (going to Elafonisi and so on), and a very occasional sailing boat.

But apparently the harbour, and the surrounding infrastructure, was heavily subsidised by the EU (which is, incidentally, an institution that I am generally speaking very much in favour of).

Perhaps something similar is taking place in Timbaki.

Henry.

PS Ton: your resume of lengthy Greek texts is great for us foreigners; and you could of course just have a link to the quoted Greek text for those relatively few here who master your wonderful language. Just a friendly suggestion.

#28 Ton

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Posted 28 January 2006 - 09:42 PM

Michael.at wrote:
I am not sure the economics are necessarily the driving force.

There is a nice new harbour (nothing on the same scale, mind) down in Paleochora, and as far as I can tell it is used by a few fishings boats, a couple of tour boats (going to Elafonisi and so on), and a very occasional sailing boat.

But apparently the harbour, and the surrounding infrastructure, was heavily subsidised by the EU (which is, incidentally, an institution that I am generally speaking very much in favour of).

Perhaps something similar is taking place in Timbaki.

Henry.

PS Ton: your resume of lengthy Greek texts is great for us foreigners; and you could of course just have a link to the quoted Greek text for those relatively few here who master your wonderful language. Just a friendly suggestion.

Yea we could do this in the future Henry

Cheers-Ton

#29 Ton

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Posted 02 February 2006 - 07:30 PM

Yea we could do this in the future Henry

Cheers-Ton




Good news!! Good news!


According to the Crete Gazette from February***Fate of Tymbaki harbour unknown !!!!! ***Yea baby this is what we like to hear! However for those of us who don't like this Chinese port to take place in Tymbaki we can't still celebrate since there is no conclusive decision taken yet. However common sense tells us at this point that it will not happen. If it will not happen, again will be because of financial reasons (which do not make sense) and not because of some of us who would like to keep the environment in Crete clean and free of monsterous industrial sites.

According to the Crete Gazette from February,

The Greek Prime Minister returned from his trip to China, bearing a deal with the Chinese government for the extension of the ports of Piraeus and Thessalonica, to which 100.000 container-loads of Chinese goods are to be brought by sea. This is the same number of container ships that were supposed to arrive at a new harbour, to be built in cooperation with the Chinese government, in Tymbaki in southern Crete.

The construction of the harbour had been announced by government spokesmen and in the press, on several occasions before the Prime Minister’s trip to China. It had even been mentioned that Tymbaki harbour was among the items on his agenda for discussion. So what happened to the agenda? Was the subject discussed, and if so, what are the prospects for this project that raised southern Cretan hopes of much-needed development?

Shortly before the New Year, the Minister of Mercantile Marine, Mr Kefaloyiannis, visited the Mesara region and spoke at Tymbaki concerning the new harbour. Tymbaki is known for its greenhouses and early fruit and vegetables, which are exported to many European countries. Recently, the area was also mentioned in connection with Chinese government interest in the construction of a large harbour for Chinese goods, which would then be transported to the south-eastern Mediterranean.

During his visit to Tymbaki, the Minister spoke of a very important project, one of the greatest development projects in Greece over the next few years, and a "golden opportunity" for Tymbaki and the Mesara. The project was to boast a 500-million-euro budget, an amount already earmarked by the Ministry. The Minister also mentioned a free trade zone in the area, to which major companies could transfer their production lines. He added that the harbour would create 800 jobs and change the face of southern Crete, creating a development hub like the large cities in the north of the island.


:unsure: :rolleyes:

#30 Ton

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Posted 17 February 2006 - 01:48 PM

Some more news on the subject below.

COSCO shows interest to join stake with largest Greek port

www.chinaview.cn 2006-02-08 23:00:34

BEIJING, Feb. 8 (Xinhuanet)-- China Ocean Shipping (Group) Company (COSCO), the country's leading shipping company, set up an office at Greece's largest port Piraievs and plans to join stake with the port, said sources with COSCO on Wednesday.

This is COSCO's another move in port investment recently after it made investment in Shanghai's newly-established Yangshan Port.

COSCO's chairman Wei Jiafu has just met with Greek Prime Minister Costas Karamanlis in Beijing last month. Karamanlis expressed support to foreign shipping companies in investing Greek ports, the source said.

COSCO's plan was also confirmed by the port authority of Piraievs (PPA), but PPA said the both sides haven't started detailed discussion on the cooperation.

Besides PPA, other Greek ports are also on COSCO's select list. A Greek official said the Greek Ministry of Merchant Marine is negotiating with COSCO on establishing a new port in southern Greece's Crete.

Sources from COSCO said Wei headed a nine-member delegation to visit Crete for the cooperation in November 2005.

Founded in 1961, COSCO now operates a variety of merchant fleets of some 600 vessels and boasts as the world's fifth largest shipping giant.

Currently, COSCO has owned 34 berths at home and abroad, with its annual container handling capacity hitting over 13 million TEUs.

In 2005, COSCO transported over 300 million tons of cargoes forits domestic and overseas clients, realizing a profit of 20 billion yuan (2.5 billion U.S. dollars). Enditem

#31 Ton

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Posted 24 February 2006 - 07:42 PM

The latest is that The Chinese are going to use the ports of Thessaloniki and Pireaus and the Timbaki port from short term project is now becoming a long term project (according to several Greek news papers, among them the Cretan paper Patris). In other words when you hear in Greek news papers long term means in best case after 30-1000 years. It is funny mind you to read in Patris news paper that the ' The Chinese are insisting for Timbaki' How can they say this if in the same article they also report that the Chinese prefer the port of Thessaloniki. Even the first Chinese container boat has already arrived there. Hahahahaha!!!!The Greek government admitted that the Chinese dont want to invest in Greece but merely want to use existing facilities with preferance the port of Pireaus and Thessaloniki made to their standards with EU or Greek funds.

#32 yannis_s

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Posted 25 February 2006 - 09:30 AM

The story about the port of Tymbaki looks like politicians' promises with very few chances of success. The local press seems to support these promises and they reproduce the kafalogiannis ideas, but the Athens press seems to have a different opinion about the subject, being more realistic probably.
It is a pity for the people of Messara though, because for once more they are victims of a propaganda that aims to increase the number of votes for politicians and political parties. Let's not forget that in October there will be the local authorities elections and every political party is interested to increase its share.
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#33 Julie

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Posted 25 February 2006 - 02:51 PM

The story about the port of Tymbaki looks like politicians' promises with very few chances of success. The local press seems to support these promises and they reproduce the kafalogiannis ideas, but the Athens press seems to have a different opinion about the subject, being more realistic probably.
It is a pity for the people of Messara though, because for once more they are victims of a propaganda that aims to increase the number of votes for politicians and political parties. Let's not forget that in October there will be the local authorities elections and every political party is interested to increase its share.


Yannis, I'm not sure I understand Ton's post, or yours - could you elaborate, please? Is there likely to be a port at Tymbaki, or not?

#34 Ton

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Posted 25 February 2006 - 06:52 PM

Julie at this point it seems that there is no plan neither by the Chinese nor by the Greek Government to build a container harbour in Tymbaki. The whole story in fact has been a 'bla-bla' since firstly emerged last year. As Yannis very well put it, the Tymbaki harbour story fits into a politician's political agenda and that's why the local press still keeps it alive (at least until October!! when the local elections take place). Hei we might even see some of the holes in the streets repaired by then... They always repair street holes and spread gravel on the streets before elections!!! yupi!!!!

#35 Ton

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Posted 07 March 2006 - 01:57 PM

For those who understand German here is a good link on the subject
Cheers-Ton
http://www.kein-cont...i_timbaki_4.htm

#36 christa

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Posted 08 March 2006 - 01:43 AM

And for those who understand English here is the english version of the link

cheers - christa :)



Kein Containerhafen in Timbaki / english

#37 Dinny

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Posted 08 March 2006 - 08:26 PM

Thanks, Christa. I gives me the shivers to read all this stuff, and I am SO happy that it seems to have been deemed as "not interesting" after all. Let's hope for the best! :unsure:

#38 Wim

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Posted 09 March 2006 - 03:55 PM

Thanks, Christa. I gives me the shivers to read all this stuff, and I am SO happy that it seems to have been deemed as "not interesting" after all. Let's hope for the best! :unsure:


Yeah damn right, but who can tell some more about this huge development south of Matala?
Seems a Belgian developer is working on a resort with an 18 holes golf cours and everything that comes with it.

I'm afraid that's not where we're waiting for in this unspoiled rural area of Crete.

Wim B)
True is that adage: "He who yields to rule by wooden heads, becomes himself a fool."

#39 Ton

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Posted 09 March 2006 - 04:30 PM

wim kouros please look in this Forum under Red Beach building Plans. If you know something new about this project please let us know. There are mixed feelings about this project. You may add yours. I personally feel that this particular project if it's done properly will add value to the area.

#40 Ton

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Posted 10 March 2006 - 12:11 PM

In today's Patris article:
the port of Tymbaki was discussed in the Greek parliament. Two ministers from the PASOK party accused Kefalogiannis of the Nea Dimokratia party and Greek Merchant Navy Minister that he is using the Tymbaki port project with the Chinese for his political agenda by ignoring more serious projects such as the ports of Pireaus and Thessaloniki which due to their proximity to the Balcans will better serve the purpose.
Kefalogiannis protested that they are the Chinese who like the Tymbaki port and the project will be further reviewed by local and government committees to decide on a time frame when it can be materialized. He also mentioned that the Tymbaki port was included in the protocol which has recenly been signed By Mr Karamanlis and the Chinese Government.

It seems that for Mr. Kefalogiannis the issue is not dead and therefore all those living in south Crete should get involved to protest against his plans.