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gays on crete


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#1 gayelvis

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Posted 23 September 2005 - 09:15 PM

A friend and I will visit crete in one week and we are looking very forward to that. The two of us are gay and we are wondering, if there are really no gay clubs, beaches and bars on crete? If so - where do the gay men meet or in other words where are the gayfriendly places? Thanks for signals, hints and answers...
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#2 asmar

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Posted 25 September 2005 - 04:18 PM

Crete is not a place to find/meet gays, indeed is a place with very reach history and culture. It would be better to ask something related with those 2 or anything else related with traveling.

However, to answer one of your questions, Crete has no gay bars as the whole Greece (apart from Mykonos).

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#3 Dinny

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Posted 25 September 2005 - 09:53 PM

Well, asmar, as far as Greek's rich history and culture is concerned, I seem to have read that the old Greeks were not so particular about whether their relations were hetero or not, on the contrary. :wink:

#4 asmar

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Posted 25 September 2005 - 11:59 PM

Dinny, if you post your source,reference I will be more than happy to debate :wink:
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#5 Dinny

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Posted 26 September 2005 - 07:07 PM

You mean this is NEWS to you, asmar? :shock:
I guess I could quote any wellknown book about the old Greeks and be able to substantiate... but since you CHALLENGE me in this way, I shall try and be more specific! :lol:

Will be back! :wink:

#6 Dinny

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Posted 26 September 2005 - 07:15 PM

OK, asmar, quoting from: http://plato.stanfor.../homosexuality/ :

As has been frequently noted, the ancient Greeks did not have terms or concepts that correspond to the contemporary dichotomy of ‘heterosexual’ and ‘homosexual’. There is a wealth of material from ancient Greece pertinent to issues of sexuality, ranging from dialogues of Plato, such as the Symposium, to plays by Aristophanes, and Greek artwork and vases. What follows is a brief description of ancient Greek attitudes, but it is important to recognize that there was regional variation. For example, in parts of Ionia there were general strictures against same-sex eros, while in Elis and Boiotia (e.g., Thebes), it was approved of and even celebrated (cf. Dover, 1989; Halperin, 1990).

Probably the most frequent assumption of sexual orientation is that persons can respond erotically to beauty in either sex. Diogenes Laeurtius, for example, wrote of Alcibiades, the Athenian general and politician of the 5th century B.C., “in his adolescence he drew away the husbands from their wives, and as a young man the wives from their husbands.” (Quoted in Greenberg, 1988, 144) Some persons were noted for their exclusive interests in persons of one gender. For example, Alexander the Great and the founder of Stoicism, Zeno of Citium, were known for their exclusive interest in boys and other men. Such persons, however, are generally portrayed as the exception. Furthermore, the issue of what gender one is attracted to is seen as an issue of taste or preference, rather than as a moral issue. A character in Plutarch's Erotikos (Dialogue on Love) argues that “the noble lover of beauty engages in love wherever he sees excellence and splendid natural endowment without regard for any difference in physiological detail.” (Ibid., 146) Gender just becomes irrelevant “detail” and instead the excellence in character and beauty is what is most important.

Even though the gender that one was erotically attracted to (at any specific time, given the assumption that persons will likely be attracted to persons of both sexes) was not important, other issues were salient, such as whether one exercised moderation. Status concerns were also of the highest importance. Given that only free men had full status, women and male slaves were not problematic sexual partners. Sex between freemen, however, was problematic for status. The central distinction in ancient Greek sexual relations was between taking an active or insertive role, versus a passive or penetrated one. The passive role was acceptable only for inferiors, such as women, slaves, or male youths who were not yet citizens. Hence the cultural ideal of a same-sex relationship was between an older man, probably in his 20's or 30's, known as the erastes, and a boy whose beard had not yet begun to grow, the eromenos or paidika. In this relationship there was courtship ritual, involving gifts (such as a rooster), and other norms. The erastes had to show that he had nobler interests in the boy, rather than a purely sexual concern. The boy was not to submit too easily, and if pursued by more than one man, was to show discretion and pick the more noble one. There is also evidence that penetration was often avoided by having the erastes face his beloved and place his penis between the thighs of the eromenos, which is known as intercrural sex. The relationship was to be temporary and should end upon the boy reaching adulthood (Dover, 1989). To continue in a submissive role even while one should be an equal citizen was considered troubling, although there certainly were many adult male same-sex relationships that were noted and not strongly stigmatized. While the passive role was thus seen as problematic, to be attracted to men was often taken as a sign of masculinity. Greek gods, such as Zeus, had stories of same-sex exploits attributed to them, as did other key figures in Greek myth and literature, such as Achilles and Hercules. Plato, in the Symposium, argues for an army to be comprised of same-sex lovers. Thebes did form such a regiment, the Sacred Band of Thebes, formed of 500 soldiers. They were renowned in the ancient world for their valor in battle.

.......

Well, this was just a "short" quote from the above site... should we go on with the Symposium? :wink:

#7 Guest_Guest_Angela_*_*

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Posted 07 November 2005 - 03:34 AM

I think there is a small problem with homophobia here... if he were to ask questions regarding the history of Crete, Greece, he would have gone to the general forum, the area designated for such questions. He came to "Meet in Crete" to ask a question about MEETing (likeminded) people in Crete, I see no problem with that other than your problem with homosexuality. I'm a female and am not gay, but I know that there are gay (or predominantly gay) bars and clubs in Greece other than on Mykonos. And as Dinny was, I am shocked that you have no knowledge of homo and bi-sexuality in Ancient Greece, especially since Christianity (which is probably at the root of your problem with gay people) didn't yet exist! Be more kind, friendly, and open minded.

#8 Loutrakis

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Posted 07 November 2005 - 04:29 PM

Excellent response, Dinny, made me smile. I don't have any clues to answer the original posting, either, but I'm sure a Google search would provide plenty, like these, in Heraklio:

Bars, Clubs and Cafes:

* Cafe Aman 64 Agiou Titou Street, Iraklion center. From the beggining of its existence, more than a decade ago, Cafe Aman has been the gayest place in town. Unlike its name implies, Cafe Aman is actually a night club, with techno/pop dance music around midnight, and greek music during after hours.
* De Facto Cafe. Plateia Liondarion (Eleftheriou Venizelou Square) & Kantanoleon Str. Small and packed. Mostly straight, but popular among gays.
* Ir Monan Cafe and bar. Formerly "Take Five" pub, opposite the OTE accross Theotokopoulou Park, now renamed and renovated. Mostly straight but, like its predecessor, still popular among gays.
* Richter Club. 6 Idomeneos Str., Iraklion center (near Cafe Aman). Another mainstream club frequented by gays. Rave/dance music.
* Pagopieon Cafe and bar. Agiou Titou Square (near Cafe Aman). New, popular among gays, hang-out. Decorated with care and style. Gay friendly personnel and relaxed atmosfere. Jazz, rock, pop, ambient music. Also nights with live music.

Winks

#9 yannis_s

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Posted 07 November 2005 - 05:51 PM

This list must be a very old one and I am not sure whether it still applies.
Richter does not exist anymore and "Take Five" has always been called the same. It is a different pub than "Ir Monan".
For the rest, they are all pubs visited by anyone in Heraklion and they should not be considered as "gay pubs".
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#10 Wim

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Posted 04 March 2006 - 06:36 PM

I'm not quite sure but should this topic's name not be changed into "Meat in Crete" :)
True is that adage: "He who yields to rule by wooden heads, becomes himself a fool."

#11 saroula

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Posted 04 March 2006 - 11:06 PM

:)

#12 MAVROLIO

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Posted 11 April 2006 - 01:00 AM

I'm not quite sure but should this topic's name not be changed into "Meat in Crete" :D

B)
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